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Podcasting is one of THE best ways to make money online. It’s also one of the best ways to build a brand and get recognized for your expertise. But did you know…it’s one of the easiest ways to develop meaningful relationships with potentially huge affiliates? Today’s guest is my personal podcasting guru and will show you how you can turn your podcast into a money-making, brand-building, affiliate-producing machine.

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Previous Episodes of The Affiliate Guy

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How to Build Your Team: Working with Virtual Assistants, Contractors, and Full Time Employees to Scale Your Business

How to Work with An Affiliate Network: Q&A Lightning Round

Don’t Launch if You Don’t Want This…

The Worst Part of My Entire Business: Why You Need to Hire an Affiliate Manager

Affiliate Marketing and Podcasts: How to Make Money, Get Affiliates, and Build a Brand Through Podcasting

Podcasting is one of the best ways to make money online.

It’s also one of the best ways to build a brand and get recognized for your expertise. But did you know it’s one of the easiest ways to develop meaningful relationships with potentially huge affiliates?

Today’s guest is my personal podcasting guru, and he will show you how you can turn a podcast into a money-making, brand-building, affiliate-producing machine.

So my guest today is one of those guys that will be the first to tell you he’s not somebody who feels like he’s worthy of having one of the top podcasts top 1% podcasts.

This guy and his co-host have had some of the best guests you can possibly imagine on their show. It’s practically a who’s who of the internet marketing and self-improvement and internet world people that I look up to and the way they do it is pretty amazing. And we’re going to talk about that in this episode today. And we’re going to talk about how they make money from their podcast, how they’ve built their brand, become the go-to experts, and how they leverage podcasts to get affiliates. Pretty cool stuff that you’re going to learn today.

Let me just put it this way, Joe Fear and Matt Wolf, and we’ve got Joe on today. Matt wasn’t able to make it. These guys are my go-to podcasting gurus. Since I started interacting with them, I met them for the first time.

We met on a Zoom call with Rich Schefren, one of the godfathers of Internet marketing. And we were working on a project with Rich. And then a few months later, we were at Rich’s house and we were hanging out and I got a chance to talk to these guys and just kind of glean from them and then learn some more stuff from them and continue to learn from them. And the next thing you know, 330 episodes into my podcast was when we hit a million downloads.

It was actually shortly after I met with these guys. Now, the hitting a million downloads had nothing to do with them, but it took me 330 episodes roughly to hit that number before my 400 episodes. So around 385 episodes, I hit 2 million. So you just do the math on that. 330 to hit 1 million, 65 to hit two. And there’s no doubt that it probably wouldn’t have taken me another 330 to hit a million on my own. But I’m going to tell you right now, the stuff I learned from them was responsible for at least half of that growth.

It would have taken me at least 150 to 180 episodes to hit that next million. And instead, I hit it in 65. So these guys helped accelerate that growth. The things that I learned from them are responsible for the reason why here is pretty close.

We’re getting on 3 million downloads of my podcast, which is absolutely amazing. In fact, I need to go check because I haven’t checked in like six or seven weeks. It might be there. And I kind of would like to know that it’d be something I want to celebrate. So that said, you’re in for a tree today.

It’s an amazing conversation that I had with Joe Fear. So let’s dive right in.

Matt: Joe, welcome, my friend.

Joe: Good to see you again. It’s been a bit, huh?

Matt: You too, man. It’s been too long, but not too long.

Joe: No, I’ve been in my bubble, so I’m complaining. It’s okay. You’ve been hustling and grinding. I see you out there.

Matt: You’ve been hustling and flowcharting.

Joe: Oh, well, that’s what I do. A lot more flowcharting these days. And that’s at least in my mind. That’s what I’m telling myself. Yes.

Matt: For those who don’t know Joe Fear, one of the hosts of the Hustle and Flow Chart Show. So hence the joke there. So here’s what we’re going to talk about today, something that you’re arguably one of the world’s leading experts on, and that is affiliate marketing and podcasting and kind of that intersection of them. And we’re going to talk about kind of two different angles. And then wherever the heck else we end up going, we’ll probably take a detour through, like, who knows? We’ll end up talking about crypto or something halfway through, which I know nothing about, possibly talking about monetizing with affiliate marketing.

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So we got this podcast, you got 100 listeners, 200 listeners, 10, 00 – 10,000, whatever the number is, you got some listeners. How do we start monetizing that? Using affiliate marketing. That’s number one. And then secondly, I want to talk about the other side.

Literally, nobody talks about it. I’ve never personally heard anybody talk about it. And I’ve been around for 17 years in this business, and that is using your podcast to grow your brand, which leads to having affiliate partners. It’s just not something I hear about.

So I want to hear your perspective on that. But let’s jump in with the affiliate marketing side. Before we jump into that, though, tell us just real quick about your podcast and kind of what you do. I think that will paint the perspective of how people can use it to monetize with affiliates.

Joe: Yeah, man. Thank you. Yeah, I love the journey that we’re going to go on here, too. So it’s going to be cool. But yeah, our podcast, Hustle and Flu Chart is the name of the show, and we’ve been doing it for four and a half years now. Haven’t ever missed a beat in terms of our release schedule, which is the secret sauce to like us keeping this thing going and everything actually happening for us. It’s 100% once a week now and it started once a week.

So technically we’re still the same. We haven’t missed anything, but no, we toy with the idea of going twice a week. Sometimes we’ve experimented with more, but again, we don’t want to mess up that consistency. We’ve had that show for a while. We did podcasting all the way back to 2010.

I think it was when we started originally. No, my bad. It was right around there, maybe a little after. But either way, so early we didn’t know what we were doing. It would have been amazing if we just kept going and just dumbly kept consistent. It would probably be like a huge, massive win, but great. It’s just interesting to see the progression of podcasting over the years.

Matt: You started in 2010 as well?

Joe: Yeah!

Matt: Yes, I’m with you, man. And the weird thing is I’m talking about the same thing today that I was talking about then. Affiliate marketing. What if I hadn’t taken eight years off? Like if I just kept going, dude, man, it’s crazy to think. And I guess that’s a good story for anything in life, right? So that one thing.

I was so consistent and like, now everyone talks about it. But yeah, podcasting. We’re here though, and it’s not too late. All of you are listening. So our show though, it’s been cool because it’s molded over the years. It’s kind of Bob and weaved through our interest and now it’s been a lot, mainly in the entrepreneurial marketing space.

Now it lives still in that space, but more into the crypto or this kind of evolution of just technology and stuff. Web three, I guess you want to bundle it around and kind of show people where there are different things happening in businesses, new economies. So that’s where our interests are.

So our show kind of naturally went that direction. And what’s always cool is wherever that show goes, a network is generating along the way. Like there are new listeners coming around, they’re referring to people. There are different people coming on our podcast that we have conversations with on the show and the show collaboration.

So it leads to more businesses or different ventures going on the side. And affiliate marketing is one of the easiest ways to start any of those types of relationships and kind of figure out a value exchange. That’s how we’ve always approached it.

Matt: Yeah. And you guys are coming, you guys are doing affiliate stuff all the time. I know you were talking before you went on that. We had a team meeting and it’s just like it’s one of those weird moments. And one of the guys on our team was like, yeah, I’m looking for this email and it’s like Matt Wolf or whatever. And I’m like, dude, I’m talking to Joe in like 25 minutes. And it was an email.

You guys were recently promoting Thrive cart and you guys, I mean you did exactly what we teach. Thrive cards are available 24/7-365. You can sign up any day of the year. You can sign up on Easter Sunday, and Christmas day for thrive cards. It’s not going anywhere. But you guys crafted a very specific short promo window with some bonuses.

I don’t know what they were but bonuses around that. And it’s like that’s what you do because now you’ve created scarcity with your audience. To your audience. This offer goes away at midnight tonight or midnight tomorrow or whatever. They can still sign up for Thrivecart and you probably even said that in the morning. You can sign up for thrive card tomorrow. You’re just not getting all this good stuff.

Joe: Yeah, you’re missing out on this cool bonus package here whatever that is.

Matt: You guys are doing that constantly. I want to talk about how you liked it when you were first starting out four and a half years ago, what are some of the ways for the purpose of the next few minutes just really want to Hone in on that beginner podcaster.

They’re not somebody who’s like, yeah, I’ve been podcasting for years. I’ve got 2 million downloads. I can have any guest premiums that I want to have in those first six months or so. Let’s look at number one.

How did you get the good guest? Because that’s what leads to the downloads, which leads to the ability to monetize. We’ll come back to the monetized part because you guys had some really good guests early on.

Joe: Yes. So we’ve always tapped into the network that we had at the time and Luckily Matt and I, it wasn’t like we started with the podcast so the show kind of jumped in. I would say a few years, a handful of years before or after we started making a lot of connections doing work with some of these folks.

So it kind of started for me. I had a service-based business of making videos. Animation stuff. Sales videos via sales for a lot of folks in the biz Dev, like kind of make money online sphere, the Frank Fern San Diego crew. Honestly, like where I live, there are just a lot of interesting cash people there.

To be honest, I’ve always networked myself a lot in those spheres at Masterminds and then made connections. And then what I’ve done has kind of been and Matt’s done the same thing, but kind of more on online. He did a lot of the teaching side of stuff, a lot more the analytical email marketing side of things.

So that’s where we both have brought the super skills, I would say, of what we can do is networking combined with really brilliant direct response marketing with Matt Wolf, who’s my co-host. I guess I didn’t mention that. Really hustle and flow chart co-host, Matt Wolf. So when I say we, he’s like the analytical brain, I’m a lot more of the people networking side of stuff.

Matt: Yeah, no kidding. We got the right one of the two today. There’s a lesson there, though, that I want to unpack. You were a newbie podcasting, a newbie in the sense that you started this podcast, but you had those existing connections, you had nurtured those relationships.

You had fostered those for in some cases years, and then you were able to tap into those. And so that’s one of the lessons there is. Like, you poured into people so that when you needed to pull from them, they were waiting for you to pull from them. Perfect. You said, we have a podcast, and they just said, when do you want to record?

Joe: That’s honestly something people have said over the years. And a lot of times I didn’t know what they were saying because I think I naturally kind of do this, and that’s just where I lean-to. But you’re right. There are just so many Wells that have been dug, I guess. And they are just waiting to say, like, yeah, down to help you out whenever you want Sass.

I would say do that at a beginner level. Like just make connections, give value anyway you can. And it could be your platform, too. And that’s where you can show them off a little bit on what you’re doing.

Matt: Yeah, that’s a great point. I’m curious, though, you got somebody who comes in, they’re new. Let’s just think about somebody. I’m going to pick a niche. I’m going to look around my office and see what. They’re in the crap. All I see is business stuff.

Joe: These are non-business things. I don’t know why these aren’t on my desk right now, but.!

Matt: (Inaudible). Wow. So there we go. They’re in the gaming niche. So they’re in the gaming niche or the gardening niche or whatever. And they’re starting to podcast and they don’t have a lot of those connections of the big names in their niche. What would you advise them to do as far as just going out and getting, say, those first three They want to have guests, though. They want to have discussions.

They don’t just want to do solo and share tips. They want to get a few kinds of good, maybe not A list, but maybe like A-minus or B plus list people. How would they go about that? Joe: Yeah, that’s a great question. And I think anyone has the ability to do it. I think it starts with you having a legitimate passion or at least a curiosity in that niche.

It’s not something that you’re just doing it for a quick buck or that you see an opportunity, but it’s actually something I guess you could pull it off, but you really got to be motivated to do it because it’s not like this is easy and you’re breaking through. This is the time where honestly, I guess as a case study, I’m kind of doing this right now in the gaming niche because where my show has gone and where it’s led to a new business, it’s called Hard for Gaming. It’s in the crypto gaming space, which is not a talked about space too often.

So as a case study, we’re actually doing this right now where we’re trying to grow our brand and our connections and all that in a brand new space where I don’t have a lot of those personal connections, a couple of partners do. But still, it’s like we have to prove it.

So I think in the early days, you got to prove it. And you could do that by just hanging out in communities and engaging a lot and mainly with the people who are maybe the head of that community, or if it’s part of a podcasting community or creator on YouTube, you’re able to somehow keep barking up, talk to the people higher-ups, find the person at the top who’s controlling the action here, because usually, those people are either gatekeepers to the higher-ups.

Maybe it’s the founder or someone who can be a podcast guest. Usually, these people are happy to talk about themselves. So I think when you realize, like, my job is just to get to the person that wants to talk about themselves and you want to go for the top, I always go for the top. It’s just as easy as finding someone in the middle, let’s say, of a big company, you’re trying to do that.

You just give me an idea, though. I never thought about this. But thankfully we’re at the point where we don’t have to do this now. But if you’re starting out and you’re doing a podcast and let’s just say that your topic is gardening, and you’re in a forum of other people who are into gardening, and the owner of the forum has some successful students in that form. For example, interview successful students.

Now you go to the owner and you say hey, I just finished recording with Joe Schmo. As you know, he’s one of your most successful students. He’s done this and this and won all these awards. It’s an amazing interview. We talked non-stop about you. Would you like to do an interview, too? Because I’m sure my audience is going, oh, my gosh, this other guy, this Tom guy, I got to hear this guy.

It’d be a great follow-up episode. How does he say no to that? You just already gave him a crap ton of publicity through his student reciprocation is there.

Joe: Yeah Big time.

Matt: The other thing I would say and I think this is super important, I found, is you need to get them when their yes rate is at its highest. Their yes rate is going to be at its highest when they have something to promote. Yes, whether it be a book, a launch, or whatever. That guard that goes down. I know me. My guard is up 48 weeks out of the year.

I say no to most stuff because I just don’t have time. But, man, when the books come this summer and next fall, we’re getting ready for my book launch in January, I will interview with just I’ve got the time on my calendar. It’s set aside. If I don’t fill that 30 minutes slot, I’m going to, I don’t know, surf ESPN.com. I have no idea.

Joe: Here’s an example of what I just did recently with our podcast in this new space where we don’t have any credit, really, other than me saying I have a podcast hustle and flowchart. And what we’ve done is it is. And people literally on our team have pulled it out of us.

They’re like, you need to tell people it’s a top 1% podcast. Over a million downloads, which it is. ListenNOTES.COM, by the way, is where that rating comes from, the percentage. So it’s a cool resource if you want to check it out. Those listening just to search for new podcasts and stuff.

Matt: There’s lots of other stuff you can get from listenNotes.com by the way.

Joe: Fort sure.

Matt: Email addresses and stuff.

Joe: Yeah, you’re more of a hacker. You’re wearing.

Matt: That is a whole other thing.

Joe: We won’t go there now, but the point is through a business contact, basically we got connected to Justin Khan, who is the founder of Twitch. Justin TV, and we had him on the podcast recently. But we framed ourselves as gamers. It had to kind of serve his purpose because he’s a busy dude.

I mean, the guys, like, just launched a big company, raised a bunch of money, but he found some time on vacationing on our show. But it was through the power of the kind of just using our network and kind of positioning ourselves, I guess, as just a big value add. So anyway, you can kind of do that.

You can actually break into any niche and find someone who’s just willing to kind of give up some time there. It’s a lot of blabbering, but I’m always kind of finding what’s the way in there. It’s always going to serve a benefit to them, too.

Matt: Yeah, that’s awesome. I’m going to have to go back and listen to this because I’ve already forgotten what was it like a really good idea. But that is how you get started. You have to make the other person. It can’t just be like, hey, I have a podcast and I’m looking for guests.

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You want to be on my podcast. We’re always got what’s in it for me? Zig Ziggler says WIFM what’s in it for me? And if you make that clear to them, I think that’s a really cool way. And I know this is what you found eventually you tapped out your network. Like you had your ten or 1215 people that you could get. So we just showed you a way to get A-Lister. You got that one A Lister.

Let’s talk about how we turn that one A-Lister? That’s exactly what you guys have done. How do you turn that one into, like two, and then turn those two into four? And how do we make this a multiplier type thing?

Joe: Yeah, I would say that what we love to do is it’s referral-based? Ask them who is someone else that we should get to know.

By this time it seems like we’re smiling at each other for about an hour. We’re having a conversation interview. It’s usually fun, kind of light-hearted. We’re having a good time. So their guard is kind of down. And if you ask that question, they might give you a couple of names right off the top of their head. Or at least they might say, hey, send me an email and I’ll make some introductions for you because by that time they might have an idea of what she was all about.

You might have something like a dream 100 list. It’s not a term that we created, of course, but we kind of modified it. We teach it in our pod hacker course. And it’s essentially a way where it’s like, hey, check out the types of people that we want to be introduced to.

You can check out that list and that’s honestly how we get that referral engine kind of going is ask them. As you said, the ask window is kind of open. And you got to kind of find it at the right time. So that’s the same time here at the podcast. You’ll warm them up, you have a great time, your friends. But then at that point and this is where you can get more value to them, by the way, to tell them how you’re going to promote the episode and get this in front of as many people to serve whatever they’re trying to get out.

Maybe it’s their book, their course, whatever. So that’s your way to really, like, leave an imprint on their brain, too, while you’re also asking for something. And here’s what we’ve had Chris Boss on our podcast, the FBI negotiator.

Matt: I love him.

Joe: He’s awesome. And the guy, it’s like reciprocation. So always asking, giving the value first, and then asking for introductions right after. That is how I would order that after you’re done with your podcast interview is telling all the cool stuff you’re going to do for them. Basically, it’s like after the show is released.

Matt: And I think the cool thing is in our little ecosystem, this little Internet marketing world, Joe and Matt are kind of a big deal. But the reality is I always sayÖ.!

Matt: Yeah. The Target test, right. Not Walmart, because Walmart is just weird. But if you go into Target and ask 100 people and I know you don’t take offenses, I do this with Ryan Schefren.

I do this with Jeff Walker. I do this with Stu McClaren. I do this with Rich Schefren. All of the big names to us go into Target. Ask 100 people if they’ve ever heard of Jeff Walker. You’re lucky if you get one. Ask them if they’ve heard of Joe Fear or Matt Wolf. And you’re lucky if you get one person out of 100 in Target.

Joe: I’d be scared if one person knew.

Matt: The point of that is like, you guys are effectively outside of our ego system. Complete nobody. Right. And yet, I mean, I’m just looking through here. Stephen Kotler, Chris Voss. As you said, these are all people whose books I just have read for Gabby Bernstein, James Altoucher. I mean, these are like serious players.

Joe: Dr. Cialdini From Influence.

Matt: Gina Wickman is responsible for the fact that I’m still sane.

Joe: Wow. A lot of people say that.

Matt: Yeah, that I’m saying that I made a ton of money. Mark Lack, some guy named Joe Fear. I did my own solo episode. My point is, that you guys have been able to get all of these amazing people. I’m just scrolling through your list.

Joe: Well, here’s the thing, man. I think the big thing is, for me, it’s been a lot of networking. It’s been a lot of surrounding myself with an influencer or mentor-type folks. And I’ve always kind of listening to people older than I am or further ahead.

I’m always looking like a couple of pieces more like, what are the steps that I should kind of be starting to absorb in my mind? And I think I quickly realized it was Rolling. Fraser, I remember this at a Mastermind. He told me, essentially, it’s easy to get booked or even if you’re looking to partner or maybe acquire a podcast or anything, it’s just easier to go to the top as it is to, like the bottom of maybe the rung where you think it’s I can just hit up the Well, you can do that. Now, these big companies, there’s a lot of ways to just kind of get your foot in the door there and do exactly what I just said.

This is actually where the podcast comes into play with this new business is we use it as our relationship machine. So we invite them onto this podcast platform that’s like their hour with us where they know we’re going to go to bat for them. We’re going to help them look really good to a lot of people. And many they’re going to chop up the content afterward and make it on all the different social media networks that it needs to be on, SEO and all that. And then after that, it turns into more.

Matt: Yeah, I gleaned something from that that I’m going to digest here. Correct me if I’m wrong. You get these people on. So you got a few people that you knew and then you made it fun for them. I’ve been on your show and it was just fun. We went long.

I would never go that long on one of my podcasts. Maybe I need to make my episodes more fun. I don’t know. But we were just like, we kept going. I think we all kind of looked each other like we should probably end this now. It just seems like people, maybe they might be enjoying this, but they’ve driven back to and from work like three times now.

Joe: Their family is falling. They’re worried.

Matt: Yeah, they finished the half marathon that they ran. Like, maybe we should just shut this down so you make it fun. So again, we know what that does at the end of it. The dopamine, the Serotonin, and they’re high. Like, this is basic psychology. But then you follow up and you just follow up in a very subtle way with somebody that you just had a good interaction with. They’re going to want to. It’s like almost. They just say, Gosh, I’ve got to think of one person I could introduce them to.

Joe: That’s all you’re asking for.

Matt: If every single guest introduces you to one person, by definition, you have an infinite line of guests.

Joe: Cool. You got an episode for next week.

Matt: Now somebody’s going to introduce you to two. Yeah. And then somebody’s going to introduce us to five.

Joe: You find someone who’s the people person that’s like the Uber networker. Because out of ten people, there’s at least one of them. I would say, you’re going to find someone that loves people and they’ll introduce you to everybody they know. And as long as they have that list as I said, that Dream 100 thing, well, now you just gave them ammunition.

You basically gave them a resource for them to say, oh, my gosh, I know, like, ten people on this list. Well, yeah, that’s what you’ll find a handful of those. And then it’s like, good. All the doors are open to whoever you want in your industry.

Matt: And that’s something else. You said you make them look good, so you make it fun. You make them look good. You become a fan of theirs not in a weird way. Not to be a stalker. You become a friend, but a fan. And I think there’s just so much there. And I think where I’m going with that again, I’m trying to put back into my mind when I started my first podcast, not my first podcast. My second podcast took 2014. And I remember, like, I used a strategy that I share with, just go look up upcoming books on Amazon.

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All of a sudden, I had on all these people that we’re pretty big names. Like, I had a former ambassador to the UN. business interviewing him about affiliate marketing. No, that wasn’t it. It was a completely different show. I interviewed some just crazy people, like Dr. Dale Archer.

He’s an ADHD doctor. But he was like. And even said he was like, this is only like the second interview I’ve ever done. Got to start. This is like the guy who wrote the best-selling book about ADHD. And he was like, how is nobody else interviewed this guy?

Joe: A lot of people like that.

Matt: Because you know what he does? He says no to most people, but nobody else had said, hey, you have a book coming out. Can I interview? And he’s like, Heck, yeah. The point is, I had all these crazy people.

Well, the thing that I learned very quickly was don’t show up and be like, I am such a huge fan of yours. I’m like, oh, my goodness. Don’t be weird. Just be like, hey, by the end of that, I had Dale Archer basically giving me, like, a free therapy session. It was the craziest thing.

My point to that is, like, if you just create that environment for them. That episode was released on YouTube in 2015. I don’t even talk about that anymore. It’s just still sitting there on YouTube. That video to this day gets a comment every week. Wow. Every week I’m getting a comment on this stupid video from seven years ago about a topic that has nothing to do with my business model anymore. And that’s the power of that.

Joe: Because itís helping people, though, every single week, I’m sure, daily, too.

Matt: But still, he and I are in contact. If I have a question. Like, if they released a new ADH drug, like next week and I was interested in possibly taking it, I could text him and be like, hey, what’s the word from you? The expert on this? And he would tell me.

Joe: I think that’s it it’s not rocket science, this whole thing. I think you got to just connect with people that is in a real way and that’s all we’ve ever tried to do and that’s all I’ve ever kind of wanted to do. So yeah, it’s hard to kind of like get outside of your own way sometimes.

Like when you’re following up, trying to be like this is like where my roadblock got to be perfect or got to make sure it’s like, you know what? Most of the time it’s like, hey, dude, great time chatting. Like in the case of Justin Khan, just hey, man, it was a great time today. Or like, hey, there’s a couple of reminders and then that set off a whole bunch of introductions in his company. I mean, it’s just like cool. It’s fine.

Matt: I love that. So here’s what I want to not really shift. Just kind of take what we just talked about, which you’re developing these relationships. You build this brand. Very successful brand. Amazing guest. I don’t know. You probably had 70 of your dream 100 on by now at this point.

Joe: Probably you should count.

Matt: Yeah, you should. So that said, you’ve done some amazing things, and a lot of these people you’ve gone on to do partnerships with. You’ve become literally like partners, but you’ve promoted each other, quote, unquote affiliates however you want to look at it, whatever the terminology you want to use as a matter of me for now. But you’ve done amazing things with these people after the fact.

I want to talk about that. It starts with what you already shared. You make it a fun interview. Make them look good. What are the next intentional steps, though, to kind of turn those hey, great. You’re on my podcast. You’ve introduced me to somebody, maybe even two into like, let’s do business together. Let’s promote each other. Let’s become affiliates with each other and make more money together. Basically.

Joe: Yeah. I mean, if there’s a crossover, if the obvious ones, if you kind of share the similar kind of audiences, I think you’re there. It might just be an obvious thing to mention to each other after the interview is done, hey, if there’s anything I can do to support you or promote your products, I’m happy to.

Again, leading with value is probably the way I would go about it. First is offering to promote something of theirs, even if it is their book, it’s something that you might not get paid from. I mean, you’re kind of doing that with the interview, but maybe in your marketing, you can subtly push their book a little more too. It just makes you look cooler, especially when these people are looking into you before they book with you.

They’re seeing that you’re doing this kind of cool stuff for other guests on your show. So I would do it that way. And then again, naturally, a lot of these opportunities. My goal, I guess, in those scenarios is always to stay top of mind. So anything I can do to always serve them, give them value, just with the podcast alone. Just think about it. You can clip up any podcast into like three or more clips that you can put on all the different social media channels and start tagging them. And then you could spread that out throughout a whole month.

Even so, you’re kind of staying on top of their minds all the freaking time and not in an annoying way to them. It’s like, wow, they’re putting me everywhere. And even if you don’t have a lot of views or likes on the thing, it’s exposure. And people just like seeing that, just thinking about like, again, all the psychology stuff I nerd out on this. This is why when Cialdini was on our show, that was like my Moly moment. And this is a lot of what he talks about. But this is like how we’ve always applied it with podcasting and then how we can do affiliate marketing and other types of ventures from this.

Matt: I think I like that. I love to talk about maybe some more examples of staying top of mind, for sure. But yeah, I’ve noticed that we’ll do that with this interview when this releases, of course, totally. We’ll promote it heavily for about ten days, and then after that ten days, we’ll continue to promote it long-term. I’ll continue to promote a clip of that episode and send people that episode once every, probably eight weeks for a year on Facebook and probably once a week on Twitter.

Joe: I see the same thing. And so you stay top of mind even though we’re not chatting all the time. At least you’re seeing it in my mind often.

Matt: And I know thatís what it is.

Joe: Do you know Dan Cochell?

Matt: I know the name.

Joe: I went on his podcast like three years ago maybe, and it still promotes almost weekly. I think that’s probably just something that he forgot on his own because there are a lot of automated tools. But at the same time, I’m like, man, he stays top of mind, and good for him because no one does this.

Matt: And it is I mean, just to be clear, it is completely automated. We use the tool. I’m sure you’ve heard of me, Edgar. And we preloaded roughly 600 tweets, for example. And what we do is we said, okay, we preloaded like 30 of them in. So we have two categories. I’ll just explain how in case you’re curious or anybody’s curious.

So we have one category that’s like current podcast episodes. So it’s basically our current two podcast episodes. And what it does is we load so we go in and we load 30 into there. So that means that over the first week it’ll hit 20, the second week it’ll hit ten. So it’s literally like three times a day for the first week and then once a day for the following week. And then the other 570, that’s not an exaggeration.

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It is exactly 600 because we write twelve different versions and then there are 50 variations of those twelve versions that one of our VA does. And sometimes it’s as simple as pointing to the link can be one finger emoji. Then the next one is two fingers and the next one is three.

Sometimes it’s pointing down one time, pointing down three times, changing the word amazing to awesome or incredible. So that’s if you think about it, amazing, awesome, incredible times three different finger emojis, times a dash instead of a colon separating it. Boom, 32 variations like that.

Joe: My question is, have you found big differences like what has worked best out of all that testing? Because I know most people will never, ever do that.

Matt: There’s no difference between the three and the two that we can see. It’s more of just not having duplicate content on Twitter because they found it totally. If you have too much duplicate content, they’ll actually shut down your account totally. But they don’t do it if the only thing that’s different is the dash instead of a colon. It’s not duplicate content.

Joe: I saw it.

Matt: So we pre-scheduled those other 570 that basically just run. And it might only send it out once every 10,15 days, once a month. We’ll even manually go in and schedule six on Facebook for Saturday. So once your episode goes live on Tuesday, we print it heavily on Tuesday, we print it again that Friday. And then we promote it every two months on Saturdays for six months.

That’s really like this year’s podcast, whatever. How we do it, I don’t know exactly how we do it. So that’s how we do that, right to your point. You know, it’s automated, but once every two weeks or so, you’re just reminded, oh, Matt Mcwilliams, for sure. And then I text you and go, Dude, can we do a podcast you’re like? Absolutely.

Joe: Exactly.

Matt: You might have said yes because of our relationship, even if I wasn’t doing that. But it certainly made it a lot easier to get that with you. And that’s that power. This one guy. Maybe because maybe you never met your guest. You don’t hang around or Robert Cialdini Weekly that I know of. You’ve never been with him in person that I know of.

Joe: No.

Matt: You don’t have his phone number, and you’re not texting him on a regular basis. That I know of. Maybe. Okay, maybe you are, but I think there was a phone number exchange. They’re staying in front of him in other ways. So that if hypothetically, six months from now, you did need to make a withdrawal, it may not happen, but it’s a lot likely.

Matt: And just think of everything you’re saying there. And as a podcaster, there’s so much power and an affiliate marketer, too, because I feel like those should play together nicely and they do. The podcast is like, it’s this big mega relationship builder that is such a trust builder in so many ways.

I mean, right now we’re talking about the guest side of things that they can turn into a JV partner of some sort and then potentially a business partner in some other way, which is like we’ve done all of that as a result of the podcast. And then I think of the fan side of the listener side.

We’re not even thinking about the trust and bonds that you’re creating with your audience that show up every episode. Because what we found is that podcasts will give you a much longer retention rate for a listener engagement rate.

So that’s always a good thing because that’s why every algorithm is built off of engagement, basically. So we’ve seen that podcasts are the best for that because it’s such a one-on-one thing. So if you think about it, compare that up with affiliate marketing or any type of business that serves them.

You’re building this kind of not-closed community because it’s definitely not. But it’s a very tight-knit community that is wrapped around the podcast. And you could do so much on both sides with the guest side and the audience side. Just in terms of that business side of things. I guess that’s where the fun happens.

Matt: As a result, my audience is getting you guys are getting so much value from this, not just from Joe, but I never honestly thought about how tagging the guests and that just popping in their feed every two weeks, even if they only see one out of eight of those every three months, I’m showing up in their feed. I never even thought about how that’s like, keeping me somewhere in their mind. Top of mind.

Yeah, I never even thought about that. The only reason we do it is that we’re trying to drive traffic to the podcast like I’m doing it for very selfish reasons. I never even thought about that. I never even thought about how powerful this is until we really talked.

I had you want to talk about it but never registered with me about just how powerful of a connection doing a podcast together typically you’re doing it on video so you can pick up nonverbal clues. Somebody that I don’t even know perhaps we get to this is how we meet for the first time and basically, it involves me asking them a lot of questions about themselves. That’s amazing.

Joe: Who doesn’t like that?

Matt: It’s like a first date for sure.

Joe: Now it struck a court I could tell you because I think you’re a vet man. This is the beauty of this business. It keeps evolving. There’s something different that we learn and I feel like it’s all human psychology.

I think everybody wants to know that they’re being noticed or their work is being noticed and thought of so what you just basically landed on is like you’re constantly doing that. You just weren’t aware of that. But for every single one of your episodes, it seems like for everyone you’ve scheduled and that can be used in a way it’s just like with people sending thank you cards or not thank you cards but more like a holiday thing in the mail.

Let’s say you stay on top of your mind. That’s just one mechanism, I guess. But they all add up.

Matt: That’s so true. Real quick I want to talk about the intentional thing that you guys do that we haven’t exactly touched on. Do you have this guest on? Do you guys have a specific kind of sequence you follow? I assume because you did it with me and it kind of seemed like you might have done it before maybe. What is this you send an email and talk about like you have a guest on what you do after this stuff doesn’t just happen by accident. So talk about that real quick.

Joe: So I will modify it now more. So it’s a little looser. But basically the general idea, it could be an email form in some cases. Now I’m finding it’s in discord because of the communities we’re hanging out with. Or Telegram. I mean, these are all apps said I’m like starting to use. I’m like, okay, I’m everywhere.

So agnostic of the platform send a message. But if you can make it personalized with video, maybe not audio, because audio is just still one of those things like on a mobile. It’s weird, a little cringy, a little bit, but I sometimes forget about that, and then I do it anyway. I’m like, Dang it, I’m that guy.

Matt: Do you talk about minesweeper when you send me audio messages?

Joe: I should, but I don’t. Next time what I do is send a video. Basically, Loom is a great tool for this. So what I typically do is use Loom and I get the app on my phone and I think you use the free version and essentially you can make a little thank you video right there. And what’s cool is you can embed that in your email if you’re sending in an email format, I would say go that route or maybe in Telegram or messenger or give their text message sometimes that’s the case.

That’s actually the best send them a text message. You can ask them their phone number on your input form. It’s like a backup contact device. Almost everyone will always give you their phone number. So just text them as a little thank you. That’s probably the simplest way to go. Keep it short and then just let them know after that. The next follow-up would be when the episode goes live and tell them all the cool stuff that you’re going to do with that episode basically.

Matt: Yeah. That’s a reminder for me. We don’t do that.

Joe: Actually. Most people don’t. And that’s the thing. It’s so simple. And when I don’t do it because I’ll catch myself sometimes I just get out of my slow and I’m like, oh, crap. But it’s like, wait, holds on. Most people never even do this stuff because I go on and I’m sure you.

Matt: Yeah, I’ve seen it done on me ten to 15 times out I think I’ve probably done at least 300 interviews, but that’s just a guess. I’ve maybe only seen it done 15 times. And so enough that you would think at some point I would have gone, you know what, we should do that too. But I’ve never done it. I just wrote a note, actually, that’s something that My assistant can do.

It’s just like, boom, we recorded this today. I think this episode goes live in two, or three weeks, whatever it is. Okay, great. He just puts it into a sauna and finds himself a thing. He could even write the email now and see.

Joe: Even if you are Matt dude who does the interview or anyone listening. Record the video yourself, even on your phone. You can just record a quick thank you. Maybe there are a couple of things you guys mentioned you wanted to follow up on, put it in the video. And that’s all I ever do.

I literally I’ll be on a walk with my kids, with my dogs, not usually with my wife, because I’m not chatting with her then. But if I’m like.

Matt: Yeah, don’t do this. If you’re walking with your spouse, don’t do that.

Joe: I didn’t get to didn’t talk at the time. So I was like, okay, walking. But the idea is just natural. Be you and follow up on some stuff that you talked about and then have your team send it. But you have that personalized touch still.

Matt: But that follow-up, though, real quick. The one where you say your episode is live and again, you don’t put it there. Like, this is one I’ve seen about 15 people do it. About six of them probably did it wrong. Or they’re like, here are some social media graphics and sharing links.

Joe: I feel like that’s where marketers go a little bit too far. Okay, I get it. It’s cool to prep all this stuff. And honestly, it’s unnecessary. It’s like just maybe clip-out parts of an episode.

If you can get a video, that’s all the better. But just like, make them look good. Make them look really good. They don’t want to pass around your show logo or your audiogram because sometimes it can look really good. I’m not saying that because we definitely. But just think of how to make them look really good, not to show your brand off everywhere.

Matt: Something somebody did with me, I think this would really work. They said they found the clip. Now I get what they were doing. It was a 92nd clip. And he said, hey, I just want to let you know this part, I just include a little clip here. This part is fire. Like, oh, my gosh. Like, what you dropped in this clip is absolutely amazing. Thank you so much. He didn’t say, hey, go share it on social media. Do you know what we did? Shared it on social media.

Joe: Yeah, he did. Of course, he did.

Matt: I literally forwarded that email to my assistant, said, hey, go schedule like ten tweets over the course of the next couple of months with this particular clip, because that clip makes me look good. Bingo. Like you said. You said that like ten times. So they didn’t ask me to do it, but I did. And if they had said, here are some social media clips, I would have scheduled one.

Joe: Really nice guy.

Matt: But most people would not. Yes, exactly. And most people would have been turned and I’m turned off by those. Yeah, but at least good for them for sending the email. Good hustle, guys. But yeah, that’s the thing. Follow up with that email follow-up, adding that for sure.

Joe: This is good stuff, dude, we’re covering a lot.

Matt: One last thing hit me. So that email, though, there’s something on that email that you know where I’m going with this that I just think is like the coolest thing. And it’s one of the reasons you’ve gotten the gap for those who aren’t watching a video.

Should I hold up something to explain what it is to you? Because I don’t want to tell people the post note that says what it is. Now. You should. No, it’s just something really cool that I think you guys do. You invented as far as I know, and I’ll let you go from there.

Joe: So I hinted at the Dream 100. I’m sure that’s the aspect that I left out. So in those emails. So going back to what you asked me about the follow-up emails, we use Gmail or Google Drive, whatever it is with our domains. So the point is Google Mail and we have this Dream 100 list.

What we did is we listed out about 100 people. It could be a little less or more. And those are the people that we want to get connected to. They’re usually about maybe a connection or two away from our circle. But we have some moonshots got Elon Musk on there. And those types of folks were like, why not? You never know. So we put that in a spreadsheet Google sheet, and all we do is inside the signature of our emails. We link that sheet directly there.

So no short link or anything. It’s the Google link that says, hey, know anyone? Question Mark. And that little phrase is hyperlinked to that Dream 100 spreadsheet in Google. So another Google sheet, two Google properties are linked together. But I found out by sending this email kind of accidentally, that it was in different formats.

Of course, I saw it actually appended a little attachment-looking thing to that first email. So that thank you follow-up email also had this little attachment-looking thing. And without me even asking for a referral to another guest, I would say a good 70% of them would reference that attachment there. And it’s actually just a little preview. And they would actually say, hey, I checked out that list.

Either they knew people or they didn’t, but now they knew the type of people I was into. So they would recommend someone else or a couple of others. That’s usually actually what happens. It’s not someone from the list. It might be like one person, but then it’s like, hey, I know three other people over here that you’ll love. I’m like, oh, okay, cool. That’s it. That’s pretty much the game.

Matt: Here’s the deal again, the psychology behind it is I can speak for me, but I know for a fact that 70, 80% of people do this. When I saw that link and I saw that list. I had to look at it to see if I knew anybody self admittedly here. Not for you, per se, but because if I saw some people and I could introduce them, I knew again that it made me look good. And I remember going, oh, I know that guy. I know him. I remember going, yeah. And I was like, oh, man, I don’t know some of those people. Like Oprah, actually, technically. I know. Do you want Garth Brooks?

Joe: See, okay. He was a Padre at one time. Like spring training. It was like a celebrity signing company. I was like back in the 90s.

Matt: I know a lot about Garth. I didn’t know he was a baseball player, according to my Garth Brooks Fan club newsletter. But seriously, it turns out I actually know the guy. One of my dad’s old friends he’s played golf with all the time was Darth parks manager. Jimmy Boeing. And there are other things like that where all of us know that one weird person. How on Earth did I end up in Dolly Parton’s house? Because a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy.

Joe: This is done virtually.

Matt: It’s a very simple way. It’s not just about getting podcast guests it’s about connections. It’s about people that we need to have a ten-minute phone call with forever. To steal that from Joe and Matt there.

Joe: Please do and let me know. Let me know how it goes. I always like to get it.

Matt: So here’s my hope that people have gotten from this. You have a podcast you’re like, man, I learned so much. I want to learn a million more things. I want to scale it. You don’t have a podcast. You’re thinking I’ve got to start a podcast either group there whatever group you’re in of those two.

What I hope is that you’re looking for a solution to help you learn more about podcasting. And here’s the thing. I’ve learned four things that I’ve written down just in this short period of time. And I know Joe and I’ve never talked about these things before. Joe’s forgotten more about podcasting than I’ll ever know.

So I’m not your guy. Don’t ask me about podcasting. Anything I’ve ever shared all that I could ever share in that one episode where I talked about podcasting before it was 27 minutes long. That’s the extent of my knowledge about podcasting, y’all. So here’s what you’re going to do.

You already know Joe’s the guy you know, Matt is too. Joe and Matt are the guys, and they have a program called Pod Hacker that I’d love for Joe just to take a moment and tell you guys about, because I cannot endorse it enough, just like you have to go get in. So just tell us real quick about Pod Hacker and then we’ll wrap up.

Joe: Yeah, that was the fact that you forgot more than I. Whatever that was, that was really.

Matt: You have forgotten more than I know about Pod Hacker. Just to be clear, podcasting.

Joe: Yeah. I love it podcasting.

Matt: Yeah, clearly you’ve forgotten more about Pod Hacker.

Joe: It’s been a bit what you mentioned here. Pod Hacker is kind of the thing that’s been pulled out of us from our community, who wanted to learn about how we’re connecting with these folks, these guests, how we’re doing all of our content in a very systematic kind of never missing a release date kind of way. There’s a whole system behind it that’s very methodical.

The Dream 100 strategy, how to structure that kind of how to hook it all up, kind of basically gave you that strategy for the most of it. But there are a lot of other subtleties, as you can notice. Now from this interview, we talk about how we package all the marketing of these shows. So after we produce a really good show, we want to talk about what we do after that fact. And that’s usually where the podcasting journey ends for folks when they release the podcast.

So Growth Hackers, that’s what we’ve always been and content-focused. And also you’re building an email list along the way. There’s all this other marketing is happening. So that’s kind of like the third pillar. If we’re going like, there’s like a building phase, building all this cool architecture and systems being engaged is kind of attracting the right people, guests, and audience to your show.

Amplifying the content is that third phase. And then we ended with more of a monetization approach. So affiliate marketing is huge. We have a lot of topics about how we approach that with the podcast, but also other forms of video these clips on Twitter. Like, we’re doing a lot more on there now. There’s a resurgence, by the way. So check out Twitter. There might be more people there than you think, which is cool.

Matt: By the time this episode airs, that might be, like, more true than you could imagine.

Joe: Elon today, if you saw that news.

Matt: Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. I don’t want to say that because it’s like Elon might buy Twitter and this might air after he bought it, right? Who knows?

Joe: But I think it’s a win for all of us. I’m just going to say that and as marketers, I think it will help us and business owners.

Matt: A marketer buying Twitter would make Twitter better for marketers. I can’t imagine.

Joe: He’s a good marketer. Elon. Study him and it’s his brain. The point of being is like if Elon wanted to start a podcast, he would want Pod Hacker. And this is like he would appreciate it, at least he’s not going to start a podcast. But he would hire someone that basically runs through this program. The point being isÖ.

Matt: Elon, if you’re listening, the guy who runs your podcast makes sure he goes through Pod Hacker. Joe will hook him up.

Joe: I’ll hook you up for the testimony of the interview. So, yeah, essentially, Pod Hacker is all the years of what we’ve been doing on podcast mixed in with other folks that we brought in in our network that kind of shore up other ways of not only building a really well-polished show but all the way to marketing the thing and making money with it.

So that’s the idea, as you kind of know, like Podhacker. Well, actually, it’s mattmcwilliams.com/podhacker. You get there from that and you definitely want to do that. So mattmcwilliams.com/podhacker. and you can see how good he is.

Matt: Go there. Scroll about a third of the way down. You’ll see kind of an ugly guy on your left. It’s me. I’m there now. Kind of cut the video. The screenshot cuts off the top and bottom of my head and is a little bit there. Apparently, I was designing a landing page on my whiteboard in the background. So there’s a stick figure. And I think we were trying to sell something. I can’t tell what we’re trying to sell.

Joe: What are you selling there?

Matt: I have no idea. But I wrote some words. You’ll see me just click that, guys. Listen to what? Listen to what I say. If you go to mattmcwilliams.com/podhacker, you can just listen. I don’t know. I’ll click play on it. It’s a two minute it’s a roughly I’ll leave the Two minute video. Two minute video.

Joe: Since getting to know them, we went from 1 million downloads to 2 million. The hockey stick kind of grew.

Matt: Yeah. And just to be clear, when I recorded that, I was around episodes and we do some quick math. We met in February, at Rich Schefrenís’s house. So roughly two years ago. So we’ll call it 110 episodes ago. I recorded that around episode 400 prior to meeting you.

I was on episode 340 ish give or take five episodes. So I’d recorded it took me 330 to 40 episodes to get to a million downloads. It took me another 60, maybe on the high end 65 to get to the next million. That’s most of that was just because it wasn’t these unbelievable things that I implemented.

It was some pretty easy stuff to implement. And it was something I picked up just privately from Joe and Matt in conversation. And it’s all stuff that you get in Pod Hackers. You don’t have to know Joe and Matt. I was very fortunate. We got to hang out. I got to make fun of Joe because he looks like a Wolfman. I mean, not Joe. Matt. Sorry. I got to make fun of Matt.

This is a good thing. I’m a very hairy man. We can say anything we want about him. And while it’s not like making fun of the Amish, this will be on the Internet. That is true. And he’ll hear about it. There’s nothing he can do. He answered by coming back on, here we go.

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That’s on everything Joe said was crap. Let me tell you the truth. Exactly. All the ideas he shared, were my ideas, probably. But my point is, you don’t have to know them. It’s all there in Pod Hacker guys. Like, seriously, you’ll get it all. So mattmcwilliams.com/podhacker guys will put that link in the show notes, make sure you go check it out. You’ll get more of Joe and you’ll actually get to meet Matt, which will be even better. I didn’t mean it that way, but it’s better that you’ll get both of them.

Joe: You’ll get all of us and more. And some dude with a really big beard. Yeah, it kind of looks like that. But the point being is video walks you through all that stuff, but also a lot of the templates. So we talked about how to do some of these. There’s a lot of stuff that we do in Google sheets that will give you terms of the Dream 100 list. Also, we didn’t talk about monetizing through sponsorships and all that.

Matt: There’s so much we can talk about for 4 hours if we want to.

Joe: Yeah. So the point being is everything you need is kind of in a box, essentially, especially on the growth hacker side. That’s what Pod Hacker is there for.

Matt: I look at this as like there’s nothing in Pod Hacker that you couldn’t learn if you had 500 hours of your own.

Joe: There you go.

Matt: Just to be transparent, I think you would agree with that, Joe. If you got 500 hours to go search all over the Internet and trial and error, you can learn everything you’ll learn in Pod Hacker, or you can just have them hand it to you and you get it in a few hours and without trial and error. And personally, I’ve gotten to the point in life where as much as I love we glorify failure, right?

Sometimes failure is stupid, sometimes failures because you didn’t listen. I love that he failed at something. Really if you just listened to his father, he wouldn’t have failed. Could have avoided it. If you just read that one book yeah, you know what? I don’t fail in negotiations anymore Because I read Chris Fosse’s book and studied it and digested it and now I don’t have to like f****** negotiating.

Now, that’s what pod hacker is for podcasting, guys. It’s just so simple. So go check it out. I won’t belabor the point, mattmcwilliams.com/podhacker, when you go through that link, that’s why you want to go through that link as well. Not only do I get an affiliate Commission duh, but I also host a podcast about affiliate marketing.

What do you guys expect? Not only do you get that, but I’ve got a couple of juicy bonuses for you. So we’ll talk about those in the show notes. One of them, just to give you a clue, is actually the podcast launched. I’m going to give you the behind-the-scenes of how we launched my podcast, how we built the podcast launch team, and the scripts that we use there. I know Joe and Matt give theirs.

Well, I’m just going to give you mine. So you can see in particular there are a few things maybe I did that they don’t talk about and see how we actually did it in action. The other thing is you’ll get a behind-the-scenes video I mentioned earlier kind of one of the ways, especially if you know literally no one how you might get the former United States ambassador to the United Nations on your podcast. No guarantees.

I think he might be dead. I think he passed away a couple of years ago, sadly. All right, but how can you get somebody like that to be in your pocket like that guy still to this day, I don’t think if he’s alive. Didn’t know that nobody. I was averaging like 800 downloads an episode at the time. But you helped me out on his way. I show you how to do it in that video.

So a couple of bonuses for you there. MattMcwilliams.com/podhackers. Thank you so much, buddy. It’s been awesome. It’s been super cool.

Joe: Thank you, Matt.

Matt: Appreciate your brother. Bye-bye. So you can see why Joe and Matt. Matt is almost as good as Joe. You can see why those guys are my go-to, guys. for podcasting. I mean, in this interview, we could have talked for four, five, or 6 hours. I could have made this into a month-long series on podcasting if I wanted to. But I wanted to get you the basic Nuggets. And then we talked about it like the next step is to go join Pod Hacker.

If you want to take your podcast to the next level, you want to start a podcast, you want to get A list guests, you want to monetize it. If you want to learn how to turn your guests into affiliates, then go get PodHacker. Go sign up. It’s just an absolutely amazing program. As I said, these guys completely changed my business.

They’re one of the best things that have ever happened to me. And the reality is, if I go through Pad Hacker before I started my podcast, I would have gotten to a million within 75 episodes, and I would have gotten to 2 million within 140. It would have accelerated my progress. I am not suggesting, just to be clear that it would have made it all. I would have been in a million downloads within ten episodes.

It’s not the case, all right, it’s not the case, but it would have dramatically improved things early on for me if I had any complaints about podcasts. My biggest complaint would be there’s just so much good stuff. It’s packed with so much information that I’m going to tell you right now, it might be overwhelming.

So go through it in order. Work through it in order. The second thing you got to know is you’ve got to put in the work. If you’re thinking this is not a plug-and-play program, it partly is. There is a plug-and-play component to PodHacker.

You still got to put in the work. And I just want to make sure you know that other than that, I can’t say anything bad about Pod Hackers. So here’s my recommendation. Just go sign up. Go sign up. If you find that it is just not for you, then they’ve got a 14-day money-back guarantee, and just take advantage of that. Just show them that you’ve done the work, you’ve gone through the exercises, and you’re still not getting the results.

They’ll give you a full refund. I don’t think that’s going to happen. But do that. And these are good guys, as you could tell. So again, you got the bonuses, you got me behind the scenes on my podcast launch and all those scripts, you’ve got the video on how to get A list, guests.

When you know nobody, you’re not typically going to get referrals for A-list guests early on. So you got to put in a little bit of work. I’m going to show you how to make it easy. I sort of hinted at it in the episode if you caught that. But I’m going to walk you through step by step how to do that. So some amazing bonuses when you join pod hacker through my link mattmcwilliams.com/podhacker I know that’s annoying.

That is annoying but I did it anyway just for fun just because I felt like it. Make sure you check out the links in the show notes as well and then make sure you hit subscribe because you do not want to miss the next episode. It’s a question I’ve been getting so much of on how to hire an affiliate manager.

So many of you have been asking me for this and I said I would cover it. I’m finally going to walk you through step by step how to hire an affiliate manager in the next episode. You can only listen if you’re subscribed. You don’t want to miss it. So there we are.

That will be twelve episodes from episode 500 of the podcast. I can’t believe we’re coming up on that. We’re coming up on 500 episodes, and 3 million downloads. Maybe we’re already there.

I guess we’ll find out after this episode. Holy crap. So much going on.

Make sure you hit that subscribe button so you don’t miss the next episode.

I’ll see you then on how to hire an affiliate manager till then.

Bye-bye.

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