The Simple Habit That Expands Your Influence with Jeff Brown

There is a simple habit that really only takes 15 minutes a day to make an impact. In fact, it will expand your influence, open doors, and dramatically increase your income…IF you make it a habit. What is it? Well, that’s what today’s episode is all about.

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The Simple Habit That Expands Your Influence with Jeff Brown

I am so excited about today’s episode. I’m talking with my friend, Jeff Brown about the simple habit that increases your influence. Really for that matter, your impact and your income, your prospects like your business, whatever it is, this is going to increase everything.

I’m going to go ahead and just let the proverbial cat out of the bag and tell you what it is. It’s reading. You’re probably already a reader, but I think this episode is going to open your eyes to some new things today. Jeff is the author of an amazing brand new book it’s called Read to Lead.

We’ll talk about that today but this isn’t just about reading more. It’s not a bunch of boring statistics about why reading is good for you. Hopefully, you know that stuff, right? I mean, I assume you do. That’s not what this book is about. I’ll be fully transparent. I thought that this book was going to be a little bit kind of simple. I was going to just be like nodding my head. Like, yeah, I agree with this, but not really learning anything. That’s not the case.

So today we talk about why people are reading less, that’s just something that’s happening in society. People are reading less and less, but also what to do about it. We talk about some of the surprising benefits of reading that you probably haven’t thought of these.

I know for me as somebody who is already a reader between audiobooks and actually reading, I invest about an hour and a half a day into reading, and knowing some of these things really allowed me to get more from what I’m reading over the past few days, we talk about the proven reasons why readers get ahead in the world.

Whether it be in business, parenting, coaching, marriage, relationships, social life, entrepreneurship, you name it. These are proven reasons why readers get ahead. Jeff also shares some practical and also really easy ways to make more time to read. This is something I asked about. I am super busy. I run a business and I have a family.

I coach soccer. We’re at soccer six or seven days a week for a minimum of two and a half hours. Plus the commute there. We’ve got a dog that we need to get exercise and I like to cook and I want to have a little bit of social life. So how do I make more time to read? So we talk about that.

We also discuss what to do. If you’re like me, maybe this is just me, but I think this is a lot of you. You find it hard to focus when you’re reading. That’s a challenge for me. So I asked that question, what should you be reading and how can you read faster? Most importantly, we have a great discussion about absorbing more of what you read and actually retaining it.

That’s huge and how to make reading a habit in your life. And lastly, I asked him about his personal favorite book and I gotta give him credit. The one that made the most impact on him, his answer is eye-opening. It reminded me that I needed to reread this book, which is going to make a huge impact on my life in business. I’m super thankful for that. Do you want to hear his answer to that question?

Now, before we jump into my interview with Jeff, I got to give a quick shout-out to it’s a great username on the apple podcast here. If he’s from Mexico, it says BornRichYeah. Who just left a review saying the only podcast I listened to. Actually, I know who this guy is because he reached out on Facebook. His name is Oscar. Hi Oscar. I know you’re listening.

He said, “I just told Matt that his podcast is the only one I listened to and I totally mean that when I say it, I have no idea why I can’t listen to other podcasts and I’ve been trying to get into the world for literally all my life listening to many, many others, but I just don’t find them engaging or relevant to me. I don’t want to put anyone down by saying Matt is the best, but I just want to share that. That’s my perspective. I don’t know if it’s because of the story Matt share the high quality of the podcast, but I love it. Keep up the amazing work, Matt.”

Oscar, thank you. Thank you so much for those kind words. I appreciate that. That’s crazy. I gotta go now because my head’s too big. I’m just kidding. So, thank you for that reading review. Five-star rating there, Oscar.

If you haven’t left a rating and review guys, please do. Again, it helps more people discover the podcast. So without further due, my talk with Jeff Brown.

Matt: Welcome Jeff.

Jeff: Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here, man.

Matt: Hey, this is going to be fun. We’re talking about one of my favorite subjects,  we’re talking about this simple habit and anybody who knows you, they see this is with Jeff Brown and they like, I know what it’s going to be. The simple habit that expands your influence. We’re just going to cut right to the chase, it’s a book you all. So you wrote a book. I’m not joking when I say this and I think it was probably the first time you’ve been asked this question like you wrote a book about reading books and I’m thinking this has gotta be like one page long. And it just says, reading is good for you, read more books but it’s not.

Tell us what was the impetus behind this? Was there any point where you were just like, okay, this kind of feels like to meta? I don’t know. I’m curious about that whole process with you on this book.

Jeff: Yeah, certainly is a meta-type book and to your point, the first third of the book, or at least the first four out of 14 chapters does make an argument for why this is a habit you need to develop in case, this book has been given to you by someone who’s already convinced to that, but maybe they see, that’s not a habit reading intentionally consistently is not a habit that you’ve cultivated and they want to try to convince you otherwise, they’re going to ask you to give them the first four chapters to just read those first four chapters. And if you’re not convinced, then you can put the book down and walk away.

Now the remainder of the book is about tips and hints for how to know what to read, how to get better at selecting the books that are right for you at this time in your life and this period in your career, and things of that nature. Then the third part of the book is really for anyone who wants to get the most out of books, how to read more in less time, how to get better at implementing and putting into action, what you’re learning, because if all that information just stays up in your head and you don’t do anything with it, then it’s not doing you or anybody else, any good. Maybe how to better retain and comprehend what you’re reading as well.

So anyone who was already convinced that the habit of reading is one that they should cherish and exercise often, parts two and three of the book are definitely going to help them. But if that is you, the good news is you can skip part one. If you’re already convinced you don’t need part one, just go right to part two.

Matt: Yeah, I’m one of those people. We’ll talk about this later because I have a question for you, I have a couple of questions that I would like to ask you for very selfish reasons, but I’m, I’m convinced between reading and audiobooks. I’m one of those weirdos who consumes probably 60 to 70 a year.

I just interviewed John Jantsch yesterday and I told him in a follow-up email. I’m like, dude, you can use this quote wherever you want to. I got one idea out of this book. I haven’t even finished the book. I read it from spent two hours already got a quarter of a million-dollar idea for the book and another idea probably worth it. Gotta be at least a hundred thousand I’m way underestimating. I think.

I’m a believer, you read a book and get an idea worth any amount of money. It was worth my time and money. But, but it seems like people are reading a lot less these days.

I think certainly when you compare us to, I read a lot of historical biographies. It feels like Lincoln and Madison and Jefferson, what else did they do other than reading? They, like, I dunno, kept the country together during a civil war, and yet they still found the time to feels like reading all day long. But why are people reading less now than they did even probably 20 or 30 years ago?

Jeff: Yeah. Just to add some modern-day names to your list, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Oprah Winfrey, and the list goes on and on and on. I think one of the reasons people read less is because we now live in a web generation where everything is delivered to us on demand and it’s delivered to us in bite-sized chunks.

These books, summary apps have taken off Blinkist and others and I’m not disparaging them. My podcast is arguably a book summary podcast. You can come to my podcast and get the key insights and may not just be from the book and audition books that you may or may not want to purchase. So you could argue that I’m sort of helping feed that, that monster in a way.

But the reason for this book is that I think eventually you have to graduate from that. You have to actually realize and understand that when an author writes a book there’s year’s worth of study and year’s worth the research and the beauty of the book is it’s all in one place. You don’t get that with a five-minute YouTube video.

You don’t get that from a book summary. It gets everything in one place and I can hand it to someone else. So people believe that they don’t have time to read because books require quote-unquote so much of my time relative to other things. Frankly, if I’m being completely blunt about it, it’s a discomfort thing. People don’t want to learn because learning requires briefly that we don’t know something which we’re taught to avoid and it’s easier not to learn and just get back to work.

The other thing is people don’t want to change their minds. If a book is going to help you get somewhere, you’re unable to get through on your own. You’re going to have to change your mind about something and both a desire to not learn and a desire not to have your mind changed are all about being outside your comfort zone snd we don’t like them. I know, you know this, I’ve learned this long time ago that life is only worth living when it’s outside your comfort zone. That’s when it is exciting. That’s when it’s fun. When you’re doing things that push you outside your comfort zone.

Bronnie Ware wrote a tremendous memoir called ‘The five regrets of the dying.’ And the number one regret was I lived life, everybody else wanted me to live instead of a life, true to myself. We get to the end of our days, not with regrets for things we did. We wished we hadn’t done it. We get to the end of our days, oftentimes with regrets for things we didn’t do, we wished we had, if you read consistently and intentionally, I can guarantee you, you will be prompted and prodded and poked to do things you wouldn’t have otherwise done and things that will take you outside your comfort zone and when you get to the end and you’re on your deathbed, you won’t have very many of those things, those regrets for things you didn’t do, you wish you had done.

Matt: That’s a powerful point. I think I know. I like reading books that either professionally or say politically or socially type as I disagree with them. Even books that I disagree with like spiritually, I get a lot out of them because there are only one of two things that can happen when you do that. It’s either going to possibly shift your view. I guess three things shift your view, because you to do more research, which could shift your view, or then from there lead to the third possibility, which solidifies your current view. It’s interesting, using the political example, it’s really easy for somebody, we even joked about this, that we weren’t going to talk about politics and here we go.

So it’s really easy for somebody on the left to only watch CNN or somebody on the right to only watch Fox news. But then if you’re like a super conservative and you can watch CNN for a month and then come away from that going, Nope. I still believe what I believe in your views are actually going to be stronger than if you’d been feeding what you already believe. I think.

I think there’s some value out of that and putting ourselves in those uncomfortable situations, a lot of people are surprised sometimes like, you read so-and-so’s book and I’m like, yeah, but you fundamentally disagree with his philosophy on marketing. And I’m like, I know I do, but I wanted to see what he had to say, you know? And I was entertained. I laughed. It was funny because he’s so wrong.

But so speaking of you mentioned like the time issue. I mean, I’m thinking about myself, I run a business and I mentioned, I clearly resolve this. I find the time, but I’m curious about your views. Like, let’s say somebody’s not reading and they’re like me, they run a business. I coach my kid’s soccer. I gotta take them to practices, I have entire four-hour blocks multiple days a week. There is no go time. We got soccer. I do the dishes at night. I usually cook dinner about three-quarters of the time. I want to have some sort of similar ins of social life, all these things like the list could go on and on.

So how do we make time? This habit, it’s the habit that can dramatically change our lives. How do we actually make time for this?

Jeff: Yeah, when my life was at a place and I was working a regular job. It was the case for me. I wasn’t running any business, but working a regular job and having that hour-long commute each way and 10 hours, 12 hour days, that sort of thing. That’s when I leveraged and dependent upon audiobooks or when I was trying to fit in exercise and reading while I would listen to audiobooks and then later podcasts when I was running.

Matt: I have a question. Were you enrolled in Automobile University?

Jeff: I was, Zig Ziglar and I were in talk back in the day. Yeah, so if you identify with what Matt just said, then understand that you can leverage audiobooks that you can listen to while you’re doing something else. So that’s one way.

Apart from that, I would probably question or ask someone in that situation, how are you currently spending your mornings? Is there a morning ritual? Is there a morning routine that you practice? Are you up and pouring into yourself and your own tank before tackling the day? If you’re not, I’m recommending you do that. That might mean getting up an extra hour earlier than you get up. Now, that hour probably should include some time for reading and it doesn’t have to be a half-hour or an hour. It could be as little as 10 minutes, I would carry a book with you everywhere you go. It could be, an hour of reading a day, but maybe it’s 10 minutes here and 10 minutes in the line over here, and 10 minutes there and, or in 15-minute blocks, whatever it might be.

If you always have a book with you, chances are, you can find an hour in a day. You didn’t even know you had, because you’re pulling that out in different places versus pulling out your phone and staring at that. If you add it up and I’m not throwing the real book at you, Matt, you asked this question from a personal nature, but I imagine if you added up all the minutes, you’re looking at your phone and, and I’m pointing the finger at me here too. You’d probably be surprised with how many minutes that add up to. Not that that’s something we could avoid completely, but I recommend turning some of those minutes into reading minutes. And you can only do that if you’ve got a book with you all the time.

Apart from that one thing I like to do is I like to schedule my reading time as much as I love to read, there are still demands on my time that could take away from it. In addition for me, 30 minutes in the morning, I have 30-minute blocks or 25 or 50-minute blocks, depending on how much reading I need to get done at different times throughout the day. And I protect those just like I would any meeting or appointment with anybody else and if someone requests that time or requests time for me to overlaps my reading time,

I can let that go and acquiesce. If I feel like the request is important and urgent, and I want to say yes to that, or I can look at that time on my calendar, Matt and I can go, you know what? I’ve had an appointment at that time can we do this at some other time and treat it as an appointment I would with anybody else? What happens? And I’ll end with this as we often the faulty yes for demands on our time. And if we say no, then we feel like we have to defend the note to the other person instead of letting no be a complete sense.

One more what we need to do is default to No and if we’re going to say yes, we need to be able to defend yes to ourselves. We need to get control of our own schedules because if we don’t somebody else will.

Matt: Yeah. That’s a powerful lesson I learned from Michael Hyatt. What he talks about is okay, if you do feel the need to not just say no, if you’re a people pleaser, as he says a recovering people pleaser say that 10 times fast, then just say, what is true? I have another appointment at that time. That time will not work for me. Like if internally you had a call, somebody said, can you do, we’re recording this on a Friday at 4:00 PM. Can you talk Friday at 4:00 PM? I had a client ask me that today. My response was, no, I have another appointment. Now it’s clear. I can’t talk to that person and record this podcast interview. And internally, even people-pleasers would have no problems saying, no, I have another appointment. But if that appointment was maybe to meditate or to take a nap, or in this case to read up 20 minutes, 30 minutes of a book, it’s really easy for us as you said.

Well, it’s just meditation. It’s just a nap, it’s reading. And so we, we say yes to that appointment. I think that’s a powerful lesson. I also want to touch on something you said, because I noticed this with myself, Jeff, was when our daughter has soccer practice, but our son doesn’t. So just to clarify, when our son goes with me to our daughter’s soccer practice, he and I play the whole time every now and again, he’s got the sniffles or he’s not feeling well, whatever, he won’t go, I take a book and you know what I end up doing for about an hour of the hour and a half?

I’ll watch her for a little bit because I want to get a few, I read 50 pages of a book at soccer practice. Why? Because I took a book. If I didn’t take the book, I do exactly what you said. I’d stare at my phone for that hour. But that intentionality just like when we go on an airplane, most people, you see a lot of people with books on airplanes. Why? Because there ain’t much else to do at least in the past. Now there is. So I want to talk to those people who are like, Hey Matt, I came because I wanted to learn that, that simple habit that expands your influence. They thought it was something else they’re about ready to click pause or click in because they’re like, I did not come to your podcast today to talk about reading. I thought it was going to be like how to post on Facebook or something.

So I want to talk about the benefits of reading. I think some of them are implied, but maybe some of the surprising benefits. Most people don’t think about those and they think of the benefits of reading.

Jeff: Back when I worked for someone else. And even today as a self-employed person, I have found that creating for myself a curriculum when there’s a new skill I want to learn is pretty powerful. We often think we have to go back to school. We have to spend a lot of money.

I starting out public speaking, I realized early in my career that that was a skill that I was going to need to develop. If I was going to reach my career goals and I was terrified of public speaking. I didn’t go to public speaking school. I don’t know if there is such a thing maybe there are some places you can go to do that.

Matt: There’s not. I should probably get that domain right now publicspeaking.com.

Jeff: There you go. There you go. One of the things I did was I bought three or four books on the topic of public speaking, but not just randomly. I thought about what do I need the most right now, what I need the most right now is confidence. I’m scared to death to do this. So the way I might do this differently today is that I’ve since found books about getting over the fear of public speaking specifically, what I had to do then was if I felt really good about my slides, that’s going to give me confidence on stage.

I’m going to feel really good about myself and about what I’ve created and a side benefit. Maybe folk’s eyes will be on them and not me and I’ll be less nervous. So I read books like Slide: ology by Nancy Duarte. I read Presentation Zen by Garr Reynolds and some others.

That gave me more confidence when I went to present and of course, I had to also do it. We talked about that earlier. It’s not just reading, but it’s also the doing. Then later I read books on presentation delivery and presentation structure and those books on getting over the fear of public speaking and more recently how to get booked and paid to speak and books like, do you talk funny all about injecting humor in your talk.

Here’s one topic, very niche called public speaking, and I’ve just rattled off four or five different sub-topics within that topic. When you dig into a niche topic like public speaking is one example, chances are, you’re going to find a multitude of sub-topics. Through that, you can build your own curriculum. Even, once you’ve done, say five books on a particular topic by that one act, that’s not a ton of books, four to five books on a particular topic.

Studies suggest that you are now a world-class expert on that topic. Now not having put it into practice yet. Could you go and deliver a talk on that subject and sound like, you know what you’re talking about? Yes. Until you got to the Q and A time, and then you’d be like a fish out of water and people would really test your metal and how much you really do know if you haven’t really done it yet. But by reading five books on a topic, you are going to know more about that topic than 95% of the rest of the population that gives you an advantage that gives you an edge, whether you’re an employee or whether you’re working for yourself.

Matt: Now, that’s powerful. I know going back to Zig Ziglar, so the audiobook if you listened to, I don’t remember how much it is. It’s like you have the equivalent of a four-year degree. As far as those five books to four or five books to probably the equivalent of one class at university. If you think about it, how many classes do you take in a given year at a university? About 10, usually five a semester. I was an athlete so four. We did the bare minimum just to stay eligible. At least I did. Maybe that was just me and everybody else on the golf team at the University of Tennessee.

We took four or five classes a semester. Well, that’s just doing some quick math, 10. We’ll just call it 10. That’s 10 classes, times five books. That’s a book a week and you’ve done a year of college for what 100th of the cost, maybe 150th of the cost.

Jeff: This thing too, Matt, just in time learning and just-in-case learning. A lot of times I find that people are struggling to develop a reading habit because they’re reading the books they need to read, just in case I need that information. It can be hard to find the motivation to read books like that. But I recommend just in time learning when you find something you want to learn, you need to learn more about it, and you need to learn it fast.

Again, create that curriculum and find the books that will help you do exactly. If there’s a problem you’re trying to solve. Yes. What somebody else, somewhere else at some other time has already solved it, and 9 times out of 10 they’ve written books about it.

Matt: Yeah. If your wife comes to you with divorce papers, maybe you should go read some mayors maybe, but now I would recommend reading them before. But if you’re looking for motivation go for it maybe that’s a good suggestion there. Go find an area where you’re struggling, lose weight, get fat. I don’t know, start a business, go read books about that. That’ll probably help kickstart that habit. I think that’s super powerful. Then you can read them, just in case stuff like I’m reading. I don’t know if you’ve ever read Team of Rivals.

Jeff: I’ve got a copy here.

Matt: I’m listening to it while reading it. I didn’t think I’d ever finished a thing. I thought it was gonna be like, take me six months. I’m actually close to done after about 25 days and it serves no practical purpose for me. There is no reason why I need to know that much about William Henry Seward or Abraham Lincoln for that matter. That’s just pure enjoyment and that kind of falls under that just in case bucket. But it’s weird, you notice this, and I’d love for you to talk about this.

Earlier, I made a reference to Lincoln and I did a Facebook live yesterday and I made, I don’t even remember what it was, but I made a reference to Lincoln. I was on a coaching call just earlier, and I talked about, you guessed it, Abraham Lincoln with a coaching client. It’s crazy how we’re able to connect those things that we think when we’re listening to it, this is going to serve no practical purpose in my life. I don’t know if you know all the psychology of that but, how does that tie into what types of books we should be reading? Should we just be doing things that are urgent or just business, just self-improvement, what’s kind of the mix for you or that you suggest for others?

Jeff: Yeah. I think it can be both the end. I generally have a book I’m reading for the sake of my podcast called Read to Lead, or I’m interviewing an author each week and that’s a book I quote-unquote, have to read, call that what you will but I carefully select those. I just read the ones I want to read and have the people on my show at one to have one. So I can be selective about that. But I do, I do have to read the book if I’m going to do a quality interview.

But I think there’s a lot to be said when it comes to the category of non-fiction and then biographies, as you’ve talked about or books like Team of Rivals, it’s okay to read books of these types and not have a to-do list when you’re done. A lot of times, non-fiction we read and especially just in time learning or just in case of learning, we think, okay, there’s going to be some things I want to do when I’m done that I want to put into action and I talked a little bit about that, but it’s okay to read some books anyway, for just how they impact your thinking. That’s what you did with Team of Rivals and the way it’s impacted your thinking is bleeding over into other areas of your life.

That’s what books will do when we read books for how they impact our thinking and things we read in them will crop up as they did for you as examples we use in conversations, we’ll be talking as I realize that something that we read applies to this very situation at the moment use that example, sometimes plan sometimes spontaneously, but that’s because we’re reading books for how they impact our thinking, as well as books that we might read where we’re going to go out and execute certain things.

I typically have a bunch of different books going at the same time in addition to what I’m reading for the podcast. I’ll have usually a biography going, I’ve recently read one on Dr. Seuss, Theodor Geisel, and then I’m in one now on George Lucas and then have one in the queue on Jim Henson, very creative type people, all of which all three of which were written by the same author, by the way, that same person, Brian J. Jones is his name.

He’s been on my podcast to talk about Theodor Geisel‘s book a while back, but I love reading those. Again, for how they influence my thinking to hear how this person became who they are or the choices they made along the way, the things that happened to them, and how they responded or reacted to those things. That’s very, very enlightening and valuable to me. There isn’t anything I’m getting, I’m going to necessarily go out and do now that I’ve read that differently or checking things off, to-do list, but when different situations or moments come up in my life that reminds me of those things I read. I can input and let those things bleed into what I’m doing like that they have for you.

Matt: You mentioned your podcast a couple of times, take a moment. Just tell us about that because you described it earlier as like a book summary podcast, kind of in a sense, and this is going to lead down a kind of a different path that I’m personally curious about. I mentioned I had a very selfish question or two or four, one of them’s coming up.

I’ve listened to your podcast, probably, I don’t know, 40 of the episodes. Personally, I’m like strolling through your podcasts. Like that one looks like something that one, not so much, but tell us about that because I’m actually kind of curious about the Genesis story of a podcast about books.

Jeff: Yeah. It started from the love of books was reignited school-educated out of me the desire to want to read and learn and that’s not a knock on teachers.

My sister’s a teacher and I’ve had great teachers in my life. It’s the system, it’s the way the system is built. So I left school thankful that the learning was done, that I could go through the rest of my life and not have to learn anymore. That was my attitude. It wasn’t until my early thirties where I had a mentor at the time, sit down with me and I used to catch him reading all the time. My boss, he’s reading all the time. How does he get away with that? Well, he sat me down once and he said, Jeff, I’m not wasting the president’s time. I’m actually improving myself. I’m actually getting better at my job. Why don’t you try this book? and he handed me a book called Purple Cow. I’ve never heard of the guy.

Matt: That’s the marketing book I ever read in my life.

Jeff: Me too. Yeah. I sat down and read that book cover to cover, I think in one sitting. I was hooked and I’ve been a voracious reader now for 18 years.

Well, about 10 years into this journey, I was thinking about what life would be like after radio. That was the industry I was in broadcasting for 26 years and I was beginning to make plans to leave that mentor had left a few months earlier and I was kind of seeing the writing on the wall. About seven or eight months before I was able to make that shift.

It got that decision got made for me. I had already begun planning a podcast. I stumbled across this idea, kicking it around, driving home from work one day and I was counting those audiobooks I had read so far this year, it was like in March and I realized I had read almost a book a week or listened to almost a book a week.

That surprised me. I didn’t realize that I had been reading at that pace. My goals previously had been like a book a month. When I said that out loud in the car, wow, that’s a book a week of this light bulb went off. I thought of podcasts as these weekly things. Most that I listened to were and are.

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: When I said that out loud, I thought maybe that’s maybe that’s my podcast idea. I’ve been trying to find what would I do a podcast about, I’m already reading a book a week anyway, I can interview the authors. I could get the meat and the potatoes right from the horses. Now, I can get some free books out of it probably and I can build a community around me of people who love talking about what they’re reading as much as I do because I didn’t have that and a lot of it was selfishly motivated if I’m being honest but at the end of the day, I wanted to get more noses in more books. I thought maybe the podcast would be an on-ramp to getting more people to read.

Now, the biggest complaint I get about the show is music to my ears. That is, I hear it from dozens of people every week. Jeff, I love your podcast, but I hated it at the same time because I spent way more money on books than I ever spent before I started listening. That to me is the best thing you could say.

Of course, when people say that, they’re, they’re saying that in just or they’re joking. But if that’s the kind of complaint I’m going to get for doing a show, like the one I do I’ll listen to that all.

Matt: Yeah. Ironically, the cost. So that’s four books a month. The cost of four books a month on average is probably what it costs to go to the movies one time. I’m not saying don’t go to the movies but I’m saying is books are cheap. Oh, also there’s this place called the library. We’ll talk about excuses for not reading in a little bit, but this is the selfish question. You’re doing one of these a week, like in addition to wanting to read about, Jim Henson or read up another biography or read something that benefits your business maybe it’s just in time learning, you need to learn how to do social media.

You want to go read five books about social media, which will all be irrelevant by the time you finished the first one, but okay. Different thing. You have things you want to read and then you get 52 books a year sent to you by your guests. So I’m curious, how do you read a book when you are interviewing the person? Like what’s your process for going through? I’m not saying you don’t want to read the book but what’s your process and thinking through how you’re going to ask questions based on what you’re reading and stuff.

Jeff: Yeah. This came naturally to me if I’m being honest, but what I’ve learned over the years is this is also,

I believe good advice for anyone who sits down to read non-fiction with any regularity. That is starting with recognizing or identifying what it is that you’re reading this book for? What are you hoping to get out of it? What’s your goal for reading it? Why you’re reading it and how are you going to frame that question? and then write the answer to that question down.

Once you’ve identified that answer, put it on paper because you’re reading nonfiction and not fiction in this case. We don’t have to start at chapter one. Look at the answer to that question. Then look at the table of contents and the table of contents relative to that question may mean reading chapters 4, 7, and 15, to get the answers you seek and then setting the book down.

As far as I’m concerned, you can go to your good reads account and mark that book as read past tense because you got from the book, what you identified, you needed to get from it before you started reading it. So oftentimes when I sit down to read a book from an author that’s going to be on the show. That’s where I began.

What interested me, what drew me to this book in the first place, what chapters immediately get to that issue to those points and I’ll start with those. Then if I have 10 or 12 questions after I’ve read those three or four chapters, whatever it is, that’s a show. I can give myself permission to stop at that point unless I just want to continue.

Sometimes I need to read 10 chapters to get 10 questions. Sometimes I get 10 questions in two chapters. I used to think I had to finish the whole book when I first started my podcast but I’ve let go of that. I think finished can be getting from it. What you decided in the beginning, you needed from it in the first place.

Matt: Okay. That sound, if anybody heard was me breathing a deep sigh of relief. That’s really helpful. I know for me it’s the same kind of thing. I’m setting my number one goal when I read a book for a podcast guest is to make sure that I deliver a good interview.

I did read the first four chapters. If I bought this book on Amazon to learn, I would have immediately as you said, I have skipped a chapter for five or six. I don’t need the first four chapters personally. I do not need to be convinced. I’m hoping all of you listening are so convinced that you guys are going to skip chapter five. Don’t trust me. The other 10 chapters are amazing. We’ll touch on a few little points from there because those are the ones that I want you to take a deep dive into guys.

Before we go any further, Jeff, I want to make sure everybody knows, Hey, you’re sitting there right now. You’re listening to this, you’ve got your buds in whatever you’re going, Yeap, this is a book for me. This Jeff guy is amazing. I know you’re thinking that. Make sure you go to the show notes. If you’re watching this, make sure you go below the video, click the link to grab his book. We’ve talked about. It’s less than 20 bucks guys. You’re going to get one or two things out of this book.

If all you do and we’ll sorta touch on this. All you do is learn how to read 10% faster. Okay. That was worth taking a couple of hours. It’s a quick read. I mean, not quite as quick as Purple Cow. So guys make sure you click that link and get this book from Jeff because it has my highest endorsement, especially chapters five through 14 because I got a lot of value. I’m just being honest. I got nothing out of the first four, but I’ve got some good questions though.

All right. That was super helpful. I think that’s very powerful when you’ve got a book on your own, skip around, see what peaks your curiosity then maybe fill in the gaps later if you want to or not.

You also mentioned this reading more than one book at a time thing. I kind of found that fascinating because you were actually reading say like two or three biographies at a time sometimes which ironically I’m doing for the first time in my whole life right now and I get very confused because I’m in the middle of the war of 18, 12, and the civil war with two separate biographies. It hurts my head because I’m getting like battles confused and like, wait, it was Madison, wait, this general did this. I mean, what’s your philosophy on that? Like reading multiple books or is it some people read like multiple books and they’re like competing views or what have you seen work for different people.

Jeff: Yeah. I think it probably is different depending on your temperament. Yeah. I don’t have much issue with reading multiple books at the same time though. I probably, if it were me and I’m not suggesting this for you, I probably would avoid reading multiple books about two different wars at the same time, that would get a little bit confusing.

But I think for me, the thing that helps when it comes to reading multiple books, the ones that aren’t podcast-related for me, I give myself more time to read those. So I mentioned a book called Do You Talk Funny?, I’m reading a book called How to Take Smart Notes. There’s a biography that I mentioned I’m reading on George Lucas. I’ll give myself as I’m reading those at the same time, two or three months to finish those books. I don’t get in a hurry at all to read those. I’m reading those again. In addition to the book I’m reading each and every week, that’s typically a how-to book, a mindset book, a book specific to a particular discipline or industry or culture or business or something along those lines and I’m trying to keep pace with a book a week in that realm.

But these other books, I give myself a lot more time. I also have been very particular about how I categorize my notes in the not-too-distant past. I would always have a single notebook that I hand-wrote notes in and I think there’s something very powerful about handwriting notes from the books you read versus typing those. I think you can type those up later or eventually, but I think initially it’s much better to hand-write them, research and study suggest that there’s something magical that happens if you will. That’s a Layman’s term, that’s not a scientific term magical, by the way, it speaks to retention and comprehension and those are increased when you’re handwriting. I would have a dedicated notebook for all my book notes and then to separate the different books within that notebook,

I would use colored tabs, stick out of the notebook and write an abbreviated version of the title on the tabs so I can just glance at the tabs on that notebook and instantly see what books are represented in this notebook.

Another thing you might do is, use the double-sided blank page or pages that are at the beginning and end of every book, you’re going to buy and create an index as you’re reading for things you want to go back to and remember if your brain goes, I want the notes on that book to always be with the book, then use those blank pages and create an index as you read that, refer back to the page numbers, the information is on. That way, when you go back to that book, you’re not thumbing through the book desperately trying to find the marking or the highlight of the dog-eared page of the many that you dog-eared that you’re looking for. You just go to that, to that index in the front.

Then more recently I purchased a paper tablet. It’s a digital notebook that I handwrite in, but all of my notes from now until eternity are in this digital paper tablet, it’s called a remarkable tool, and I’ve had two and a half months and I love it.

I’ve got my day planner in here now don’t tell Michael Hyatt I said that. I’ve got all my notes from books in here and all my notes from meetings in here, all of it handwritten, but all of it on this digital device that saves it and I can email it to myself and other people if I need to it’s saving the cloud, all that kind of stuff. But that works great for me.

Apart from that, I think a single notebook for the notes you’re taking, I’ll add one more thing related to retention and comprehension and to notes. I have changed how I take notes now, such that I don’t take notes as I go. I don’t read a paragraph or two and write some notes to take me to a paragraph two and write some notes that can make the reading process a laborious one. It takes forever to finish a book.

Instead of what I do is I’ll read in short blocks of time, 25 or 50 minutes, and try to finish either a section or a chapter, depending on how much time that I have and just limit myself to markings Matt, just an asterisk for things that are important.

A question mark for things I’m not sure I understand or not try I agree with, like in one of those political books you talked about, or maybe a cue for a particular pithy quote that I want to be able to remember or unpack, or maybe using a talk in the future and just make those markings and then get to the end of the chapter and once I get to the end of the chapter, I saving another 25 minute or 15-minute timer the Pomodoro technique. And now I’m just taking notes.

Now I’m just going back to those marketings and writing in my own words, what I understand the author to be saying such that someone else six months from now could stumble upon this and make perfect sense of what I’ve written and the reason I say it like because the future you, is going to come back to, this is someone else. You’ve learned. You’ve evolved. You’ve grown. Since you read, you want to come back to this and make sense of it. So write as if you’re writing to someone else.

Matt: Sorry, I was texting Michael to tell him that. I’m curious, you guys let me know those of you who watch your listeners, leave a comment, and let me know how many of you ever noticed the double-sided blank page at the beginning of books? I had no idea it was even there until you tell me and I am like, I just grabbed it. Yeap, There’s one there. I’m like, I’m going through all my books now.

There’s a double-sided blank page. I will say this, like one of the benefits I’ve found about handwriting I’ll take your book for example, here, I literally dog-eared the cover as a reminder that I had put a note there, but these dog-ear pages, I mean

Jeff, you can see there are like notes written all over the place. It’s a disaster in here. I am not trying to win an award. I have no intentions of ever giving this copy to anyone else. If I want to give them a copy, I will buy them a copy. I will send them an Amazon gift card.

I’m kind of famous for just buying books for people, they just get a book and it’s from me sometimes like just a note that just says, I hope you enjoy this Matt because I’m going to write on this because this is my book. I wish I could remember who I would give her credit, I did a podcast interview, my old podcast. This is probably like seven or eight years ago. I told her that when I’m in meetings, I have a propensity to doodle. Not because I’m not paying attention, but because if I don’t just doodle, then I’ll be like, Ooh, that’s an interesting piece of artwork. I wonder where that was created.

Was that author’s name again? I can’t remember. Then I’m like, oh, sorry. What’d you say? She actually said, if you go back and trace your doodle, it will take you back to that moment in time and you will be able to picture everything that was going on and being said at that very moment.

Jeff: That’s powerful. Wow. I got chills. When you said that.

Matt: The handwriting thing is the same. If you go back, maybe you don’t have a specific place where you sit, maybe you don’t even, where was I reading that book 15 years ago, you go back and trace your handwriting. It will take you back to that very moment in time. Especially with nonfiction, one thing I’ve noticed like I’ve read the book, The E-Myth three times now. I read it in 2005, 2012, and 2019. I was at completely different parts of my career, my journey, different businesses, three different businesses when I read that book. So it’s like my thing if I ever started another business, I’m going to read the E-Myth again.

We read these books from different perspectives based on where we are. Imagine if I read a dating book now that’d be kind of weird, but it would be, I’d be reading it from the perspective of my daughter. Who’s going to begin dating in three years. Not from, I’m looking for my soulmate. I found her, she’s going to stick around with me. I don’t know.

Jeff: That’s powerful.

Matt: It will take you back to that. I thought that was really cool and you’ll get some ideas. There’s just a little hacks as we finish up here, you touched on something, you just answered one of my big questions, which is how do we absorb and retain more.

So I appreciate that. I asked on Facebook if anybody had any questions for you, one of them was, this may or may not apply to me too. Sometimes I find it really hard to focus when I’m reading. Do you have any advice for this person who may or may not be named Matt Mcwilliams?

Jeff: You hinted at one of these,

I think a moment ago that realizing it. I think when you can, it’s important to have a dedicated spot that you read. I’ve got a chair behind me. That is my reading chair. It’s in my office. It’s in a room that has a door on it. I can shut.

Matt: Zooming in right now so I can see.

Jeff: My wife picked it out for me. It’s great. I wasn’t even in town. She says, now this, this looks perfect and I love it. I’ve also got a lap desk that actually works perfectly laying across the arms of that, the flat arms of that chair. But I can set my book down on one side. My note-taking device or notebook on the other side works perfect.

I’ve got a set place and that’s all I do in that chair typically is read, I can shut the door as long as I warned my wife about this next thing and you do the same with your spouse or significant other is I like to wear noise, canceling headphones and connect that to an app on my phone, like focus at will.

One more recently that I’ve gotten into that I pay a monthly subscription for like 995 or something is Adagio, which is a classical music app. It allows you to find classical music based on your mood. It’s a little flywheel in the center of it and you just pick a mood and you get classical music to that mood and either one of these apps is feeding you music that’s not going to be a catchy tune. You’re going to want to hum or sing along with there’s no lyrics or anything like that. So that music piped into my brain helps me to focus and really stay on the task.

One thing I would add to that is when you set aside 25 minutes or 50 minutes or an hour or whatever to read, and you’ve set a goal of what I want to finish, I want to read a chapter or this section or whatever, if you don’t hit that goal, don’t be too hard on yourself. The main thing to remember is did I spend the time I set aside to do what I said I was going to do? Did I actually read? Worry more about that than how much you read.

Matt: I love that. I’ve listened to the same YouTube video for three years. Every time I read.

Jeff: Oh, no kidding.

Matt: It’s a three-hour loop. It’s Chromatic, something or another. Free YouTube video. Y’all I mean, I’m happy. I’ll put, try to remember to put the link in the show notes, but if not, just email me, I’ll send you the link. As I said, I’ve used it for three years, probably anytime I’m reading, doing any type of focus work. So it’s almost like backtracking, I can hear in my head right now, as a matter of fact,

The last couple of questions Jeff, thank you so much for doing this. This has been awesome. Again, I would just encourage anybody who’s listening, please. If Jeff hasn’t convinced you that reading is the ridiculously simple habit, that’s going to take your influence, your impact, your career, your business, your marriage, your life, your whatever, to the next level. Then go back to the beginning and listen again, because what is wrong with you?

I personally consider myself a little bit of a slow reader. Actually, I thought so it turns out in the book when things I loved was that it tells me, Matt, you’re not a slow reader. He didn’t say that you did not write that in there, but it says the average person reads it 238 words per minute. I tested it. There’s a test in the book that Jeff gives. I found that I’m actually at 249. So technically I’m slightly faster than average, which is not really all that exciting. It’s having a slightly more successful than the average business, I guess, but I’d like to get to 400 words. I think that would allow me to get more and, but I want to comprehend it.

What are some of the things I know you suggest some of these in the book, what are one or two things that you would say, here are the top couple of things you could do, Matt, that they’ll take you from 249, the 400 ish and keep the retention and comprehension and all that stuff?

Jeff: Yeah. A couple of we already talked about and touched on and I’ll just hit those briefly. That’s Prepare Your Reading Environment. We talked at length about that. Reading in short blocks at a time can narrow your focus. For me, that’s, I’m talking 25 minutes, but for you that, starting out, it might be five or 10 minutes. Again, that’s up to you. Define that for yourself don’t feel like you have to compare yourself to somebody else.

One thing we talked about at length in the book is this technique of guiding your reading. If you want to read faster, get more read in less time, use a pointer or a pencil or a pen to guide your reading and use that device, that finger, whatever it is, and intentionally move it faster, enforce your eyes to follow it faster than you would normally read, force your eyes to follow that guide. As you do, what you’re going to discover is you’re going to begin to read words in groups and recognize the fact that you’re capable of comprehending what’s on the page faster than you think.

Like when you see a stop sign, your brain doesn’t go, let’s see that says STOP. I mean, you just see the sign in your periphery and you know what to do and the guiding method can help a great deal with that. We also talk about the hop method, which is a validation of that. My coauthor, Jesse, if I’m being completely honest, is the true expert on speed reading, but something that I want to touch on that also has value here. There’s this chapter we titled something along the lines of how to read a 220-page book in an hour or two hours.

Matt: That’s my favorite chapter, by the way. Oh my gosh. I love that one.

Jeff: Well, this chapter, if I’m remembering correctly talks about this idea of skimming on the surface, that may sound obvious, but there’s a technique to it. This is a great way to get the key insights and main ideas from a non-fiction book in very little time. So what you want to do is you want to go to the beginning of the chapter.

As I said before, that doesn’t necessarily have to be chapter number one, depending on what you want to get out of the book, right? So go to that chapter, whatever it is, and read the headings and subheadings from, to end and begin to familiarize yourself with what it is the author is trying to convey in that particular chapter, then go back to the beginning of the chapter and read the first and last sentence of each paragraph.

We try to write our book this way as well, most nonfiction books are just naturally written this way when you get to the end of the chapter, having done that what you’ll find is you can now in about 10 minutes, it’s about all it’s going to take you to do in most books, 10 minutes to accomplish the two things I just said, skim the headings and subheadings in the first and last sentence of each paragraph, you will have 80 to 90% of the meat of that chapter. You do that for all the chapters and you’ve quote-unquote, read a 220-page book in a couple of hours.

Matt: Yeah. I actually did it with the remainder of that chapter I wanted to get through and maybe, or maybe not the rest of the book because it was yesterday and I knew we were talking today, so I wanted to get through it and get it, get some of those key points. But yeah, I’ve actually done that. I’ve done that for a couple of years with books that they’re in my industry, but they’re more like beginner books and I’m quite frankly,

I’m not entirely sure how much I’m going to get out of it, but I at least want to just kind of review it maybe because it might be good content. Maybe I’ll pick up on a concept. That’ll be good for my audience. So, yeah, I’ve been using that. I don’t have I ever done an hour, but I’ve done like 200-page books in an hour and a half, which would normally take me, five-ish hours to read. I get through it pretty quickly. I do exactly like I’m flipping through and I’m like, okay, I got the gist of this,

It’s a very effective technique. I don’t recommend doing it for books where you really think they could move the needle for you. If I had done that with John’s book here, I would not have gotten that $250,000, our idea. It was buried. Quite frankly, there was something he said that had nothing to do with anything that I clicked and it made a thought go here. That’s how our minds work. So I would not recommend doing it with like, don’t do it with this book like I did because I’m gonna go back and read it. I just needed to get stuff done as you said.

Alright, as we wrap up. Jeff, as I said, the title of this episode is The Simple Habit that Expands Your Influence. I’ve known about the power of reading for a good 16, 17 years. I’m just like you, I left college and was like, I am never reading another book for the rest of my life, and then two weeks later, I pick up a book about sports psychology and I’ve pretty much been hooked ever since then on books. Honestly, it’s not really that much of a habit for me, it’s like I’ve got 45 minutes at my daughter’s soccer practice. I’ll read a book. So I’m kind of curious, like your thoughts on how we make it more of a habit, like a true habitual part of our lives.

Jeff: Yeah. I’ve got some thoughts there and in some of my thoughts, there have been influenced by Dr. BJ Fogg and his work and BJ from Stanford.

Matt: Tiny Habits.

Jeff: Yeah. Tiny Habits is the name of his last book that came out a couple of years ago. and especially for those struggling to make this a habit again, sometimes the problem or part of the problem is comparing themselves to other people and how much I should or need to read in a certain amount of time or what’s my reading speed and all those things. I think it’s okay to start small. I encourage you to start tiny. So Fogg talks about it this way and we talk about this and read to lead as well, borrowing some advice from him.

It’s great when you can anchor or connect, I should say new habit you’re trying to develop to an anchor habit. The anchor habit is the habit that you already do naturally every day, something that goes great with books and it’s even more effective when you can kind of stay along the same theme lines. So reading books and drinking coffee go together really, really well. They fit a theme, right. Drinking coffee every day. Maybe you drink coffee every day without even thinking about it. That’s just one of the first things you do when you get up. So your habit recipe, all a fog might be when I sit down to enjoy my morning coffee,

I’m going to open my book and read a page or when I sit down to enjoy my morning coffee, I’m gonna open my book and read a paragraph, or I’m going to have my book and read a sentence. Or when I sit down with my morning coffee, I’m going to open the book and just set it there. That can be the goal, Matt. It’s just opening the book. It can be that tiny. Then what you’re going to do, and you’re going to celebrate, you’re going to do a tiger woods style fist bump, or you’re going to put your arms above your head and a victory sign or you’re going to looking at yourself in the mirror and say, you’re awesome, Matt, way to go. You did it. And over time as serious, or as silly I should say as that sounds, you’re going to train your brain to this is something that we like. This is something that makes us feel good. I want to do more of this. I want to do this again. The next day you’re doing it again.

When I enjoy my morning coffee, when I sit down to do that, I’m going to open my book or if it’s exercise, I’m going to set out my yoga mat and I’m going to celebrate. That’s all I promised myself I was going to do. That’s what I’m going to do. But eventually, you get to a point where you’re like, oh, I’m here anyway. Why don’t I just read a little bit? Why don’t I just try a downward dog?.

Fogg talks about this in relation to struggling with building the habit of flossing, his teeth, he brushed his teeth like clockwork every day. That was his anchor habit and that made sense so his habit recipe was when I floss or when I brush my teeth, rather I will floss one tooth for the foreseeable future, that will be my goal and I will celebrate. But like I said before, eventually, it’s like, well, what am I just floss a second tooth. I’ll just do that and celebrate. That leads to flossing all the teeth, as silly as this sounds as tiny as these goals sound, if you can break it down to super tiny and you can sincerely is where’s, it’ll feel celebrate those moments. You will start training your brain to want to do this and experience these moments more and more.

Matt: Yeah. I love that. I know the book, Tiny Habits and Charles Duhigg’s book called Power of Habit. The same concept as tying it to something and so, I mean, it’s so weird I’ve gotten to the point when I walk in the door after bringing our dog in the morning because that’s audiobook time. I’m making coffee and I’m getting like vitamins and supplements, feeding him. I walk in the door and I almost instinctively now open press play. And for 25 minutes, I’m listening while I get my stuff done. Then I sit down and drink the coffee and read for a little bit and it’s crazy. That’s listening, but it’s become a habit to consume 20 to 30 minutes of transformative content, whatever I’m listening to. I’m usually, I don’t think I’ve ever listened to fiction.

I did listen to one, The Legend of Bagger Vance, but that was when I was six so that doesn’t count. You know, I’m usually listening to something that’s going to nourish my mind and it’s tied to that, bringing the dog in, getting the stuff ready, and literally, it’s habitual for me just to open the app and click play. Sometimes I get a minute in before I realized I’m listening to the book, it’s kind of like I have to go back a minute because I have no idea what they’re talking about. Literally, nothing, it’s kind of crazy. That’s how habitual something like this can be. So that’s the importance.

I mean, when we say habit, we don’t just mean something you do daily. It’s something that is truly like you sit down to drink the coffee, the book opens, you start reading and you go wait, I’m reading and that’s what it should be. So Jeff, again, thank you so much. I do have one last question for you and it gets probably the most important question I’ll ask you all day, but I just want to thank you. Congratulations on writing this book, man.

I know as someone who’s just finished the manuscript for one like it’s a beast and I’m super excited for you. I just want to encourage everybody listening, go get the book, read the first four chapters. Don’t read the first four chapters, skip around. Doesn’t matter. It’s actually a book really honestly it flows and you could skip right to the chapter and how to read faster. Do it. That’s what you need. Hey, it will help you read the rest of the book faster. Maybe you should do that. So I just encourage you guys, go get this book, test out the reading faster part on this book, you know, maybe that’s the thing.

As we wrap up, Jeff, I’m kinda curious and I truly don’t know the answer to this question because I try to do a little bit of research, not enough, couldn’t find it. Not sure if your answer is anywhere else. What is your favorite book of all time?

Jeff: Well, that’s like asking someone to select their favorite child.

Matt: It kind of is. Is there not just one that stands out for you?

Jeff: Yeah, there is the Seth Godin when I mentioned Purple Cow is high on the list for sentimental reasons because it did rock my world and changed my mind in a lot of things. Liz Weisman’s Multipliers. How the best, see how the best, what does it go? Multipliers?

Matt: I know the book you’re talking about, but I do not know the subtitle.

Jeff: How the best leaders, something, something I forgot the first time I’ve ever blanked on the subtitle but anyway.

Matt: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter. Great book

Jeff: Yeah. Thank you. That book helped me and label the difference between command and control leadership, which I was in my younger days. I was a command and control type leader. And the difference between that and a leader who understands how to leverage the collective brainpower in the room and isn’t afraid or threatened to do that. Hires people around them that are smarter than they are. I learned very late in my career, unfortunately, that you don’t want to be the smartest person in the room, if that’s the case, then you’re in the wrong room. That book helped open my eyes in a lot of ways to all that and more and Liz since then has become a friend. She’s the only person.

I kill myself for saying this publicly. She’s the only person I asked to endorse my book who said no, but she said no because she was in the midst of writing her own book and had so many deadlines. She didn’t have time to read it, but she has supported it tremendously. Sorry, Liz, I didn’t mean to tell any there, but she has become a great friend and it’s been cool to see her work, continue to flourish.

Matt: That’s awesome. Yeah. If you are a good friend, tell her that I am a huge fan of her book. There’s a Bear Bryant quote, as much as it pains me to quote Bear Bryant because he coached Alabama and he said, “I never hired people that aren’t smarter than me.” He’s like, otherwise, why would I hire them?

He said, if you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room, find a room where at least a third of the group is smarter than you. I know you need your ego and whatnot, but no, you want to be around people who are going to feed into you. So yeah, it’s a great, great book. In fact, I just wrote a note, I’m going to listen to that one again. It’s been kind of has been a couple of years. I think it’s been now and that book’s not that old but yeah, it’s been a couple of years I believe. I am super looking forward to listening to that again. So thanks for the reminder.

Jeff, thank you again. This has been awesome. I know everyone has gotten so much value out of this. I sincerely hope that at least half the people clicked pause and just went and grabbed a book. Maybe you’re listening to this later, but thank you so much, buddy.

Jeff: Thank you, Matt. It was a lot of fun. I appreciate being here and love to do it again someday in the future. And have you on my show when your book comes out.

Matt: I can’t wait..!

Guys listen, go get this book. It’s a quick read. You can skip around. How can you skip it? Like, skip to the part. I’m not sure what chapter is right about the part about reading faster and then start wherever you want. Read how to read faster. Maybe you’ll read 20, 30% faster. This book will barely take you a couple of hours.

As I mentioned, if you don’t get this, as of now, it’s $17 and 9 cents on Amazon. We’ll put the link here in the show notes. It’s just, Mattmcwilliams.com/readtolead.

If you go there, you don’t get $17 and 9 cents worth of value. Just email me. I’ll refund you. I’ll send you $17 and 9 cents. That’s how much I believe in this book. You’re not going to do that of course, because if you don’t get $17 and 10 cents, now, if you don’t get like a hundred dollars, a minimum worth of value out of this. I don’t know that’s on you. Honestly, I’m just being serious. Go check that out – Mattmcwilliams.com/readtolead one little thing from this book that’s going to take you two hours to read could completely revolutionize your life. I promise you that.

Make sure you hit subscribe, share the podcast with someone you know, leave a rating review, come back for the next episode. That’s why hitting subscribe is so important. You do not want to miss this one. I’m going to talk about how to run an affiliate program for a lower ticket offer. So if you have a product that’s a lower ticket item under a couple of hundred dollars.

This isn’t like $2,000 courses $1000, $500. It can be challenging to run an affiliate program for a lower ticket item. The commissions are lower. You’ve got really small margins. There’s usually a ton of competition. You know, it’s more of a commoditized product. So how do you get your affiliate program actually stand out? How do you keep your affiliates excited and engaged when it’s such a low-ticket offer? They’re not getting $500 $1000 commissions. Well, that’s what next week’s episode is all about. I’ll see you then.

Questions?

Text me anytime at (260) 217-4619.

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